The Art of Rafael Kubelik

[Sergeant Rock]

A dissenting opinion about his Mahler: except for the First, this is Mahler-Lite. He's way too fast; he skims the surface of the music, rarely digging into its depths. Baker may be even better for Kubelik than she was for Haitink, but Haitink is definitely my preferred conductor in Das Lied.

I endorse the positive comments about his Dvorak, Smetana, his superb Meistersinger and Freischütz. I'd like to add his great performances in the DG Hartmann symphony cycle.

Sarge

[Philoctetes]

Everything that I've heard by Kubelik is grand.

His Mahler, his Brahms, his Berlioz, and we go on and on.

[MishaK]

A dissenting opinion about his Mahler: except for the First, this is Mahler-Lite. He's way too fast; he skims the surface of the music, rarely digging into its depths. Baker may be even better for Kubelik than she was for Haitink, but Haitink is definitely my preferred conductor in Das Lied.

I disagree with that. He uncovers the folkloristic, but doesn't make it banal ever. And I would not say he's too fast. Boulez or Haitink are often faster. Kubelik's Mahler is unfussy, unmannerred, not over-emotive, but at the same time not super detatched analytic.

[Bunny]

A dissenting opinion about his Mahler: except for the First, this is Mahler-Lite. He's way too fast; he skims the surface of the music, rarely digging into its depths. Baker may be even better for Kubelik than she was for Haitink, but Haitink is definitely my preferred conductor in Das Lied.

I endorse the positive comments about his Dvorak, Smetana, his superb Meistersinger and Freischütz. I'd like to add his great performances in the DG Hartmann symphony cycle.

Sarge

I also disagree about the Mahler.  I do feel that better sounding and more exciting performances are found on his live cycle for Audite.  While the play isn't as manicured as the studio recordings, there is so much more "edge"  to the live performances.  Definitely not Mahlerlite.  It's just an incredibly expensive set to collect as there's no box set.  The Mahler 8th is actually offered in an enhanced SACD/hybrid edition as well.

[Bunny]

The words from a certain forum member, and many others as to "buy it at any price" for the Kubelik live Ma Vlast, on Supraphon were words of a knowing bunch!!  I did, and it is...<superb>

Also mentioned are his stunning Bruckner 9th on Orfeo, the highly rated Das Lied with Kmentt & DJB, his Mahler 5th live on Audite and I do have the greatest admiration for his DG Mahler 8th.

Throw in his Dvorak 7/8/9 for good measure too!!

This one?

[MishaK]

This one?

Yes, though it has seen several incarnations

[BorisG]

Yes, though it has seen several incarnations

Tried Harnoncourt's Ma Vlast?

[MishaK]

Tried Harnoncourt's Ma Vlast?

I am missing the joke here.

[BorisG]

I am missing the joke here.

That is because it is not a joke.

[MishaK]

That is because it is not a joke.

This is a thread about Kubelik, not generally about recommendations for ma vlast. No, I have not tried Harnoncourt and I'm not that interested in this piece to shell out the money.

[E d o]

Kubelik's Mahler is more polite and less gripping than, say, Bernstein or Walter. I have two of the Audite's (Das Lied and 2).  After listening to Kubelik's and Walter's DLVDE back to back, I found myself wishing for a Walter/Baker recording in good sound. That's not to say I regret buying the Kubelik, far from it. All it really means is that I like my Mahler on the intense side. It's too bad there is no No.4 in the Audite series.

[sidoze]

All it really means is that I like my Mahler on the intense side.

But we already know that what's intense for one might not be for another. Example: I always found the Ferrier / Walter on the flaccid side.

[knight66]

A lovely version of the music from Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream.

Plus a number of discs already mentioned.

Mike

[DarkAngel]

Harnoncourt/RCA is a very fine Ma Vlast performance and sound, ranks near the top of available recordings.

The Kubelik/Supraphon Ma Vlast is fine but not my favorite version by him, done in his final years it is an old man's version reflecting on times past, polished elegant but lacking some drama. Compare that to his 1950 CSO version on Mercury, much more energy and drama, a younger mans vision with optimism and zest for life and all the future holds.........I prefer this to any of Kubeliks later versions

Dvorak by Kubelik is great across the board.

I really like his Mahler set especially the live Audite versions as Bunny says above, nicely captures the folk elements and can be exciting and dramatic when called for, sounds very balanced style wise to me. His weak link was Mahler 2nd, never could do a great version for some reason

[MishaK]

A lovely version of the music from Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream.

That is included in the DG original masters set mentioned above, along with rehearsal excerpts.

The Kubelik/Supraphon Ma Vlast is fine but not my favorite version by him, done in his final years it is an old man's version reflecting on times past, polished elegant but lacking some drama. Compare that to his 1950 CSO version on Mercury, much more energy and drama, a younger mans vision with optimism and zest for life and all the future holds.........I prefer this to any of Kubeliks later versions

  I beg to differ. There is tons of drama and the Czech PO are playing their heart out. It's a very special performance. The 50s Mercury CSO performance is also great, but of a different sort. Certainly his best studio version, preferrable over BSO and VPO.

[head-case]

My favorite Kubelik remains the old Vienna Philharmonic recordings for Decca, particularly the Dvorak 7/9.

[MishaK]

My favorite Kubelik remains the old Vienna Philharmonic recordings for Decca, particularly the Dvorak 7/9.

I have one half of a Brahms cycle he did around that time with the VPO for Decca but find it overly thick and unconvincing.

[DarkAngel]

  I beg to differ. There is tons of drama and the Czech PO are playing their heart out. It's a very special performance. The 50s Mercury CSO performance is also great, but of a different sort. Certainly his best studio version, preferrable over BSO and VPO.

I keep both versions in collection of course (as I am sure many do), but the older Kubelik (supraphon) is more reflective of days past like recounting his youth with some longing for the old times. I get a different feeling when listening to CSO version, more forward optimistic looking

[DarkAngel]

My favorite Kubelik remains the old Vienna Philharmonic recordings for Decca, particularly the Dvorak 7/9.

You are right about the Decca Legends VPO 7/9........I just found this CD a couple years ago and it is an oustanding pairing. Very very close to surpassing the Kubeliks 1966 BPO DG Originals 9th which I still hold as my reference for Dvorak 9th, I would not argue with anyone who said it was best available recording

I have Kubelik's CSO Dvorak 9th also which comes in the 4CD Mercury Kubelik set, but prefer the DG Originals and Decca Legends performances

[E d o]

But we already know that what's intense for one might not be for another. Example: I always found the Ferrier / Walter on the flaccid side.

True, but flaccid, now that is a stretch.