Opera without sopranos

[knight66]

Perhaps if we can just get him used to opera then introduce sopranos, it may grow on him.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

I like the Fra' Angelo idea. How about Carmen as a Gay opera, Carmen a countertenor and the girls at the factory could be lady-boys....in other words, tenors.

Mike

Carmen's almost been done, well as a ballet. Matthew Bourne's The Carman, in which the central character is a bi-sexual male, who will sleep with anyone. I have to say I enjoyed it immensely!

[marvinbrown]

Carmen's almost been done, well as a ballet. Matthew Bourne's The Carman, in which the central character is a bi-sexual male, who will sleep with anyone.

  Oh my God  ......

  marvin

[knight66]

I don't follow ballet, but had been dimly aware of the Carman adaptation, I think it took place in a car workshop?? If Bourne was half as imaginative as he was with Swan Lake, which I saw on TV and thought terrific, then it would indeed have been worth watching.

Mike

[Wendell_E]

Britten's Curlew River fits OK, the Madwoman is sung by a tenor.

Also Britten's other two parables for church performance, The Prodigal Son and The Burning Fiery Furnace have all-male casts.  And there aren't any large female roles in Death in Venice.

[Harry]

Yeah, but skip act one and you still have two hours. My favorite is the second and third act. In fact, I only listened to the first act once. Somehow the soprano-less parts of the opera seems more reviting to me.

Duly noted, my list gets longer.

[Harry]

I am becoming frankly confused. What is different about Operetta in which a soprano...possibly coloratura, is welcome...yet is an anathema in a romantic opera? I am being tempted into some very uncharitable thoughts here. But Harry is too nice for me to spill them onto the page. However..............

Mike

It is a contradiction in terminus for me also Mike, I am still not behind the gist of why this is. But coloratura sopranos do not hurt my senses.
I denied the liking of operetta's for a long time, but after buying one with a guilty conscience, and listening to it like I was in stealth, I concluded, darn I like this, so why not opera?
Still beats me!

[Harry]

Two suggestions....

1) Arnold SCHOENBERG Moses und Aron: Female input is minimal, but romantic???

2) Strauss Elektra: Elektra is played by a mute, so she does not get to sing at all. Her mother is usually played by a lady-bass. The other main characters are men apart from Elektra's sister...now a days, sung by a counter tenor. So, it clearly fits the bill and is ultra romantic to boot.

Mike

On my seperate opera order list. There is a lot of catching up to do!

[Harry]

I remain lost as to how anyone could enjoy the beautiful and very elaborate soprano roles in Fledermaus, but be put off by Traviata?!

Mike

Me too!

[Harry]

Yes, Harry, Elektra is definitely an opera for you. Also you can safely listen to the first two acts of Wagner's Siegfried. There are only male voices plus a bird. Nothing to fear.

Sarge

Elektra is done, but Wagner Sarge,....that is asking to much right now!

[Harry]

OK, I will try it one day.





I am surprised that (Elektra notwithstanding) that no one has yet tried to trick Harry into an all soprano opera.

Please don't, I will dislike you afterwards, and be hurt emotionally.

[Harry]

Hector, You have lost all sense of collusion!

Mike

Before I buy any opera I Will do thorough research as wether there is a possibility of encountering to many sopranos.

[Harry]

But that would be simply cruel.

On a different note, I think Harry would just adore Erwartung.

Erwartung it is then!

[Harry]

   Opera fans you have given Harry some good recommendations for operas without sopranos (or minor roles for sopranos) but I can not help feel ill at ease and troubled by what is ultimately developing here.  I fear that Harry will never experience the following GREAT music, all with soprano roles:

  1) Wagner (The Ring Cycle , Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal, Die Meistersingers)
  2) Verdi (Otello, Aida, La Traviata, Rogolleto, Don Carlo, Falstaff, Un Ballo in Maschera)
  3) Mozart (Don Giovanni, Le Nozze Di Figaro, Die Zauberfolte, Cosi fan Tutte)
  4) Puccini (Tosca, Madama Butterfly, Turandot, La Boheme)

  That would be a real loss wouldn't you agree?

My recommendation is : start with Die Zauberflote (a very welcoming opera with soprano roles (Queen of the Night aria is simply glorious)

  marvin

     

For the Mozart operas I will seek recommendations, for I can stomach them quite easily, but not if the soprano roles are too vibrato laden, so HIP performances first please.

[Tsaraslondon]

I don't follow ballet, but had been dimly aware of the Carman adaptation, I think it took place in a car workshop?? If Bourne was half as imaginative as he was with Swan Lake, which I saw on TV and thought terrific, then it would indeed have been worth watching.

Mike

Not quite as immaginative as Swan Lake, it was a marked improvement on his other adaptations (the Nutcracker and Cinderella), and never less than entertaining. You can see it this year at Sadlers Wells, as it's showing from 10 July to 5 August.

[zamyrabyrd]

For the Mozart operas I will seek recommendations, for I can stomach them quite easily, but not if the soprano roles are too vibrato laden, so HIP performances first please.

First off while reading this thread, I thought you didn't like sopranos. (If that is the case, I will never speak to you again!!) But now you write the high vibrato disturbs you. Ideally, of course, the vibrato of a singer should be unobtrusive as a violinist's, slightly faster for higher voices. But if you can hear the oscillations of 7cps, either you have super hearing or have mainly Middle Eastern musical descent (or both).

Not once was I surprised from the latter who said that the Western Operatic style had "vibrato". It could be that we get used to a vocally "free sound" that we don't hear a vibrato as part of the sound anymore. In the Middle East, across Turkey, Iran and the Arab world, the lower female voices are traditionally preferred. But they don't sing without vibrato either. Pushing the breath can minimize vibrato, but a rather aggressive white sound is the result.

ZB

[Mark G. Simon]

Erwartung it is then!

You've been warned elsewhere that Erwartung is all soprano all the time. But Schoenberg's Moses und Aron is pretty much soprano-free.

[Harry]

First off while reading this thread, I thought you didn't like sopranos. (If that is the case, I will never speak to you again!!)

ZB

I simply love sopranos, please stay!

[Harry]

You've been warned elsewhere that Erwartung is all soprano all the time. But Schoenberg's Moses und Aron is pretty much soprano-free.

Well I am careful, so I will search on internet
Duly noted, thank you very much.

[Sarastro]

Bartok's "Bluebeard castle" - just two characters: mezzo - Judith and Bluebeard.