Janáček (Leoš' Lair)

Started by karlhenning, June 12, 2007, 04:21:16 AM

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Mirror Image

#360
Quote from: Brian on July 14, 2021, 01:33:07 PM
Those are different recordings!! The newer one was recorded in May and October, 2013. I have them both and just took a look. Now, don't ask me which is better cuz I can't remember and will have to listen to them again. Wait, that sounds fun. OK, you can ask  ;D

Thanks for the clarification, Brian. 8) And yes, I'd like to read your thoughts on these two different performances. They're probably both awesome. I certainly love the one from '97.

k a rl h e nn i ng

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 13, 2021, 10:19:53 AM
p.s.  I must admit, there are certain works which I have a hard time not picking up more than one recording of.  I'm sure that you have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about?  ;)

(* chortle *)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
PD:  if you like the Janacek quartets try and hear this disc (perhaps Hurwitz mentioned it - I've no idea)



Not only were these the first recordings of a new critical edition of the quartets - with several terrifyingly hard passages reinstated on the "original" instruments, but also the filler is a brilliantly idiomatic transcription of movements from "On an Overgrown Path" for quartet.  Its nearly as good as having a third quartet by Janacek!
RS,

I'm still digging around to see if I can find a copy to borrow of this CD.  When I googled it today, I also ran across this new recording and am wondering whether or not anyone here has heard it and if so, what they think of it:  http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Jun/Janacek_quartets_UP0199.htm

This one includes an arrangement for string quartet of "In the Mists" as well as Book 2 of "On an Overgrown Path".

PD


amw

The Czech Philharmonic Quartet recording is.... mostly loud, to the exception of many other qualities, so hard for me to describe otherwise. Not loud as in the instrumentalists play loudly; loud as in the audio has been compressed (probably using a limiter) and normalized to 0dB. I'd probably have to hear a live performance by the same ensemble to evaluate them properly.

The performances may well be fine, it's just... that's legitimately the main thing I noticed.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: amw on August 06, 2021, 04:11:51 AM
The Czech Philharmonic Quartet recording is.... mostly loud, to the exception of many other qualities, so hard for me to describe otherwise. Not loud as in the instrumentalists play loudly; loud as in the audio has been compressed (probably using a limiter) and normalized to 0dB. I'd probably have to hear a live performance by the same ensemble to evaluate them properly.

The performances may well be fine, it's just... that's legitimately the main thing I noticed.
Interesting.  I hadn't heard of compression making things louder before?  I've noticed things like the rolling off of high notes in operatic recordings (which I hate as it leads to a very boxed-in feeling/kind of recording).

What did you think of arrangements of the music?  Or were you too distracted by the recording quality?

PD

Madiel

Compression is essentially DONE to make things louder, and it has very deleterious effects. For classical music in particular it's a rather dumb idea.

If you listen to podcasts, Twenty Thousand Hertz has 2 really good episodes on the whole phenomenon.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Irons

Quote from: Madiel on August 06, 2021, 03:26:08 PM
Compression is essentially DONE to make things louder, and it has very deleterious effects. For classical music in particular it's a rather dumb idea.

If you listen to podcasts, Twenty Thousand Hertz has 2 really good episodes on the whole phenomenon.

Just as deleterious is too much dynamic range which with full range loudspeakers can be a bugbear with digital recordings. When setting gain for loud passages soft are inaudible and setting for soft leads to uncomfortable loud climaxes.
Classical music is not the easiest to reproduce in a recording.   
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Madiel

Quote from: Irons on August 07, 2021, 12:02:51 AM
Just as deleterious is too much dynamic range which with full range loudspeakers can be a bugbear with digital recordings. When setting gain for loud passages soft are inaudible and setting for soft leads to uncomfortable loud climaxes.
Classical music is not the easiest to reproduce in a recording.

I agree, and this can be particularly tricky for orchestral recordings. I don't think a quartet should have such issues, however.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Irons

Quote from: Madiel on August 07, 2021, 12:05:18 AM
I agree, and this can be particularly tricky for orchestral recordings. I don't think a quartet should have such issues, however.

Agreed. Solo piano can be problematic.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Madiel on August 06, 2021, 03:26:08 PM
Compression is essentially DONE to make things louder, and it has very deleterious effects. For classical music in particular it's a rather dumb idea.

If you listen to podcasts, Twenty Thousand Hertz has 2 really good episodes on the whole phenomenon.
Thanks for the info and I'll check out those podcasts.   :)

PD

amw

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 06, 2021, 05:18:31 AM
What did you think of arrangements of the music?
I'm always fascinated by arrangements. These seemed to lack some essential "Janáčekness" but that may be due to the genteel and polished nature of the performances; it would be particularly interesting to hear the In the Mists arrangement played by a band with a much greater flair for the operatic. It also made me interested to potentially hear arrangements of these piano works for orchestra; the string quartet felt somehow insufficient by comparison with the piano original (wonder if this may be why such a compressed recording was chosen by the engineers, to "amplify" the sound quality and make the string quartet sound more orchestral—if so it was not an ideal choice).

I found the arrangements an interesting failure, and worth listening to for that reason; they are thought-provoking at least.

Mirror Image

I can't image any arrangement of a Janáček work being successful, especially when there isn't a thing a wrong with the original.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2021, 06:08:25 AM
I can't image any arrangement of a Janáček work being successful, especially when there isn't a thing a wrong with the original.

but you don't like the concept of arranging full stop....!

MusicTurner

#373
Heresy, but:

operas, such as 'Jenufa' or 'From the House of the Dead', arranged as piano concertos. I'd like that - the musical ongoing would be clearer, and there's often a certain mixture of percussive and lyrical tendencies in Janacek's music, that would suit the sound picture, I imagine.

But of course, it won't happen.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: MusicTurner on August 07, 2021, 09:49:03 AM
Heresy, but:

operas, such as 'Jenufa' or 'From the House of the Dead', arranged as piano concertos. I'd like that - the musical ongoing would be clearer, and there's often a certain mixture of percussive and lyrical tendencies in Janacek's music, that would suit the sound picture, I imagine.

But of course, it won't happen.
Ooh!  Interesting idea!  Very clever!   :)

PD

MusicTurner


Mirror Image

Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 07, 2021, 09:35:36 AM
but you don't like the concept of arranging full stop....!

I don't mind the idea of arrangement, but sometimes I wonder whether it was worth the trouble? This is what I'm asking myself when talking about these Janáček arrangements or the Barshai arrangements of the Shostakovich SQs that he has done. The answer I keep coming up with is "No, it wasn't worth it." But to each their own.

bhodges

Just found out this production of Jenůfa — starring Asmik Grigorian and Karita Mattila — is available on demand through November 9, via the Royal Opera House.

https://operavision.eu/en/library/performances/operas/jenufa-royal-opera-house#

--Bruce

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brewski on October 13, 2021, 07:18:22 PM
Just found out this production of Jenůfa — starring Asmik Grigorian and Karita Mattila — is available on demand through November 9, via the Royal Opera House.

https://operavision.eu/en/library/performances/operas/jenufa-royal-opera-house#

--Bruce
Thanks Bruce!

PD

calyptorhynchus

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
I don't mind the idea of arrangement, but sometimes I wonder whether it was worth the trouble? This is what I'm asking myself when talking about these Janáček arrangements or the Barshai arrangements of the Shostakovich SQs that he has done. The answer I keep coming up with is "No, it wasn't worth it." But to each their own.

I think sometimes arrangements are worth it. For example, it would be good to hear an arrangement of Messiaean's Turangalia Symphony where the Ondes Martenot is replaced by a real instrument, a viola say. I once wrote to Messiaean estate, very politely, proposing this, but they didn't reply  :(