Janáček (Leoš' Lair)

[Mirror Image]

And in this Cunning Vixen?

Yes, in this recording of The Cunning Vixen.

[Daverz]

Yes, in this recording of The Cunning Vixen.

As beautifully as the VPO plays in the Mackerras recording, I find the performance somewhat generic in a cosmopolitan way.  The special colors of the Czech Philharmonic winds and their natural understanding of the rhythms of the Czech language so important in this work are missing in the VPO recording.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Someone mentioned earlier today elsewhere (Roasted Swan I believe?) about a recording of Janacek's string quartets which features the viola d'amore vs. using a viola.  I've heard one a while ago which did this too (with the Manderling Quartet) and dug a bit further to find out the differences.  At the time, I had heard/read that this was the first recording doing this (from 2010).  The differences between the two in a small nutshell is that Gunther Teuffel was asked by the group to come up with a reconstruction.  I remember watching a video that he had also done about his choices and why.  The video is here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suLdTwsNRVk

I did a quick bit of research on the Diotima Quartet's recording which apparently is one of the Bärenreiter Edition (which I hadn't heard of before now) which apparently is an attempt at reconstructing it by going back to Janacek's original sketches (mainly).  https://www.baerenreiter.com/en/shop/product/details/BA9533/

PrestoC has some samples from this CD on their website which I'll listen to in a bit.

Perhaps Relm or someone else here can comment on the differences between these two versions and whether or not they think that one is more in line with what they think Janacek originally wanted?  Also, for those who have heard both versions?  Note:  this is referring to his composition of Intimate Letters.

PD

[Brian]

Perhaps Relm or someone else here can comment on the differences between these two versions and whether or not they think that one is more in line with what they think Janacek originally wanted?

Speaking of which, another thing an expert could weigh in on to tell us their perspective - my understanding was that Janacek wanted a viola d'amore mostly because of the name, and may not have been totally familiar with the instrument or its sound. Don't know if that is really true.

[North Star]

Speaking of which, another thing an expert could weigh in on to tell us their perspective - my understanding was that Janacek wanted a viola d'amore mostly because of the name, and may not have been totally familiar with the instrument or its sound. Don't know if that is really true.

Janáček wrote the viola d'amore part with full understanding of the instrument's range for sure, and the edition of the Quartet featuring a normal viola has some of the viola d'amore passages split between the viola and one of the violin parts from what I recall.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Speaking of which, another thing an expert could weigh in on to tell us their perspective - my understanding was that Janacek wanted a viola d'amore mostly because of the name, and may not have been totally familiar with the instrument or its sound. Don't know if that is really true.

Hi Brian,

From what I recall of that interview (which I had linked to), Janacek loved and was fascinated with the sound of it.  I need to go back and listen to that interview again. 

Janáček wrote the viola d'amore part with full understanding of the instrument's range for sure, and the edition of the Quartet featuring a normal viola has some of the viola d'amore passages split between the viola and one of the violin parts from what I recall.

Oh, interesting about those splits!

PD

[North Star]

The reason for revising it for an ordinary viola seems to have been that the viola d'amore was too quiet next to the rest of the quartet. I'm sure it also helped in getting more quartets to perform the work.

[Mirror Image]

The reason for revising it for an ordinary viola seems to have been that the viola d'amore was too quiet next to the rest of the quartet. I'm sure it also helped in getting more quartets to perform the work.

Bingo to the bolded text. I mean Janáček knew what he was doing and, honestly, he made the right decision to revise for a viola. A viola d'amore isn't something someone has just lying around. A string quartet's standard instrumentation ensured him performances and now look at how well these SQs have done. They're standard repertoire for a string quartet and have been recorded an inordinate amount of times.

[Biffo]

Janáček wrote the viola d'amore part with full understanding of the instrument's range for sure, and the edition of the Quartet featuring a normal viola has some of the viola d'amore passages split between the viola and one of the violin parts from what I recall.

Janacek also used the viola d'amore in his opera The Makropoulos Case. The booklet notes to the Decca/Mackerras recording by John Tyrell suggest that Janacek was attracted by the instrument's name as much as its gentle tone. Tyrell also mentions that Janacek had a viola d'amore player on the staff of his organ school in Brno so presumably he knew what it sounded like. Tyrell also says that in most live performances it is replaced by a viola or a violin. Modern recording techniques can make the instrument audible.

The balance in a string quartet is no doubt a different matter from a full orchestra.

[bhodges]

To celebrate:

Jealousy and Taras Bulba, recorded November 10, 2000, with Sir Mark Elder and the Concertgebouw, from this box:

https://www.amazon.com/Anthology-2000-2010-Royal-Concertgebouw-Orchestra/dp/B00G2I881C/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=concertgebouw+anthology&qid=1625332120&sprefix=concertgebouw+&sr=8-3

[Asin]B00G2I881C[/asin]

--Bruce

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Has anyone hear heard the Prazak Quartet's recording of Janacek's two quartets?  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they have recorded them more than once.

PD

EDIT:  My two favorite recordings are with the Talich Quartet (recent incarnation) on Calliope and also the Pavel Haas' Quartet's ones.

[Mirror Image]

Has anyone hear heard the Prazak Quartet's recording of Janacek's two quartets?  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they have recorded them more than once.

PD

EDIT:  My two favorite recordings are with the Talich Quartet (recent incarnation) on Calliope and also the Pavel Haas' Quartet's ones.

Panocha, Pražák and Talich can do no wrong in my book. Get the Pražák! It's outstanding. Interestingly enough, I have been less impressed with the Pavel Haas Quartet performances. I can't put my finger on what exactly doesn't sound right to my ears, but it sounds a bit understated and not wild enough --- if this makes any sense.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Panocha, Pražák and Talich can do no wrong in my book. Get the Pražák! It's outstanding. Interestingly enough, I have been less impressed with the Pavel Haas Quartet performances. I can't put my finger on what exactly doesn't sound right to my ears, but it sounds a bit understated and not wild enough --- if this makes any sense.

Interesting re your comments about the PH Quartet's recording.  It didn't strike me that way, but that's o.k. we all have different tastes.  So, did the Prazak record it only once during their quartets history?  Don't know the Panocha one...

Would you mind providing any photos links to those two?

PD

p.s.  I must admit, there are certain works which I have a hard time not picking up more than one recording of.  I'm sure that you have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about? 

Edit:  Looks like the Prazak have recorded it at least twice--on Praga Digitalis.  They don't make it easy to find the years though.    http://www.pragarecords.com/catprazak2018.pdf

[Mirror Image]

Interesting re your comments about the PH Quartet's recording.  It didn't strike me that way, but that's o.k. we all have different tastes.  So, did the Prazak record it only once during their quartets history?  Don't know the Panocha one...

Would you mind providing any photos links to those two?

PD

p.s.  I must admit, there are certain works which I have a hard time not picking up more than one recording of.  I'm sure that you have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about? 

Yeah, I haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure the Pražáks haven't recorded these SQs twice. Don't quote on me on that, though. As for links...SURE! Here you go:



https://www.amazon.com/Leos-Janacek-Kreutzer-Intimate-Kayahara/dp/B000005W15/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Janacek+Prazak&qid=1626201091&s=music&sr=1-1



https://www.amazon.com/String-Quartets-Leo%C2%9A-Janáček/dp/B000OMCIW2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Janacek+Panocha&qid=1626201142&s=music&sr=1-1

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Yeah, I haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure the Pražáks haven't recorded these SQs twice. Don't quote on me on that, though. As for links...SURE! Here you go:



https://www.amazon.com/Leos-Janacek-Kreutzer-Intimate-Kayahara/dp/B000005W15/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Janacek+Prazak&qid=1626201091&s=music&sr=1-1



https://www.amazon.com/String-Quartets-Leo%C2%9A-Janáček/dp/B000OMCIW2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Janacek+Panocha&qid=1626201142&s=music&sr=1-1

Thank you!  I do now recall seeing that Panocha CD cover online.  Please see my edit to my previous post too. 

PD

[Mirror Image]

Edit:  Looks like the Prazak have recorded it at least twice--on Praga Digitalis.  They don't make it easy to find the years though.    http://www.pragarecords.com/catprazak2018.pdf

This doesn't seem to be case though, PD. Praga Digitals has a habit of reissuing older recordings in SACD format and it looks like their Janáček Pražák recording is no different.

[Brian]

Hey PD, did you ask me for Prazak favorite recommendations in another thread? I kind of remember that but don't remember where it was so we could talk about it here. 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This doesn't seem to be case though, PD. Praga Digitals has a habit of reissuing older recordings in SACD format and it looks like their Janáček Pražák recording is no different.

Interesting.  So when was the original recording from?

PD

[Mirror Image]

Interesting.  So when was the original recording from?

PD

It's from 1997 as shown here:

[Brian]

Those are different recordings!! The newer one was recorded in May and October, 2013. I have them both and just took a look. Now, don't ask me which is better cuz I can't remember and will have to listen to them again. Wait, that sounds fun. OK, you can ask