Janáček (Leoš' Lair)

[Mirror Image]

I thought it was the surrounding world that had the difficulties to decide whether he is a composer or not...

I'm not sure. Does anyone know when his earliest composition was written?

[Scarpia]

I wonder why it took Janacek so long to decide to become a composer? Anyone know this?

First compositions at 22, first opera at 34 is old?  Earliest work I have actually heard is the Zdenka variations, 1880 (26 years old, I guess).

[MishaK]

Of course not. It's not easy to put your expectations on the right level when you haven't heard nearly anything by a composer before. Next Janacek work will encounter higher expectations.

Why go into it with any expectations at all?

[Mirror Image]

First compositions at 22, first opera at 34 is old?  Earliest work I have actually heard is the Zdenka variations, 1880 (26 years old, I guess).

I guess not. Many historians consider Janacek one of the greatest late-bloomers in the 20th Century.

[Scarpia]

I guess not. Many historians consider Janacek one of the greatest late-bloomers in the 20th Century.

Blooming late doesn't imply starting late, I suppose.

[Mirror Image]

Blooming late doesn't imply starting late, I suppose.

That's true. What compositions do you consider to be Janacek's masterpieces?

[MishaK]

I guess not. Many historians consider Janacek one of the greatest late-bloomers in the 20th Century.

I think the issue is less when he started writing in the first place, but when he really found his own voice and became a truly original composer in his own right. His early stuff is often rather derivative and conventional. It's not until you get to his more mature works where he really becomes a recognizeable unique voice with very idiosyncratic modernist ideas.

[Mirror Image]

I think the issue is less when he started writing in the first place, but when he really found his own voice and became a truly original composer in his own right. His early stuff is often rather derivative and conventional. It's not until you get to his more mature works where he really becomes a recognizeable unique voice with very idiosyncratic modernist ideas.

What do you consider great works of Janacek's mature style?

[MishaK]

What do you consider great works of Janacek's mature style?

His mature style is generally considered to be from Jenufa onwards, by which time he was already 50 years old.

[Mirror Image]

His mature style is generally considered to be from Jenufa onwards, by which time he was already 50 years old.

You didn't answer my question. What do you consider Janacek's greatest compositions of his mature style?

[Luke]

Janacek's stylistic development, seen in conjunction with the development of his theories of aesthetics, was the subject of my undergraduate thesis, so this is my specialist area, if any is! (not that that means much). To answer MI's question, IMO - and as I've said many times before - in general the later Janacek it is, the more pure, stripped-down and pure Janacek it is, and so one answer is: the last pieces, that is, the second string quartet, the Glagolitic Mass, and From the House of the Dead. I'd also put the reconstruction of the Violin Concerto in there, because it's very late and very pure in style, though not 'real' Janacek in some senses. But even being drastically ruthless, I couldn't exclude from any list: The Cunning Little Vixen, Kat'a Kabanova or The Diary of One Who Disappeared. And that is cutting down things painfully, because I don't think there is a post Jenufa work by Janacek that isn't seared on my mind! (He's my favourite composer, if it needs pointing out)

[Luke]

BTW - I've got the score here to a very early piece by Janacek from 1878 which I'd love to post because everything about it is such a contrast from the Janacek we know and love, everything down to the careful neat calligraphy. But I can't upload attachments. He's still absorbing influences here, very much - in fact, it's almost all influence and no Janacek. but even in the very earliest pieces, even in his workaday harmony exercises, one can see the beginnings of what would become Janacek traits ripe for the picking, though I'm sure he wasn't even aware of it himself at this point.

[Luke]

The usual starting point given by Janacek scholars for J's emergence as a composer in his own right is 1884, with the composition of a set of partsongs which certainly do sound like no one else, though nothing like mature Janacek either - great little pieces. Some of the best of Janacek is to be found in the small choral pieces, actually.

[MishaK]

You didn't answer my question. What do you consider Janacek's greatest compositions of his mature style?

Luke answered that one better than I could. I don't know that I would make a ranking, but the mass, the 2nd quartet, in the mists, Katya, Vixen, House of the Dead, Sinfonietta definitely belong in that group.

[Scarpia]

Luke answered that one better than I could. I don't know that I would make a ranking, but the mass, the 2nd quartet, in the mists, Katya, Vixen, House of the Dead, Sinfonietta definitely belong in that group.

I also think Taras Bulba is a wonderful piece, maybe a bit of a guilty pleasure.

[Luke]

One very good pre-Jenufa piece that often gets forgotten is the cantata Amarus. Now this is one piece no one could dislike - it has many of the great virtues of Janacek's mature writing, but little of the craggy, eliptical writing which - I know, I can hardly bear to even think it - some might not enjoy or 'get'. Instead it is still suffused with a straightforward romanticism and mysticism. It's really a lovely work, though hardly a masterpiece, and worth seeking out.

[Luke]

I also think Taras Bulba is a wonderful piece, maybe a bit of a guilty pleasure.

Exactly! There's another orchestral pieces - The Fiddler's Child - which isn't quite as well-known, but which I think is in some ways a better piece. A more thoughtful one, anyway, and with some wonderful ideas and sonorities. But it doesn't have the sheer excitement of Taras Bulba!

[Scarpia]

Now this is one piece no one could dislike

Wanna bet?

[Luke]

Well, obviously I wasn't including you in that....   

[Mirror Image]

Janacek's stylistic development, seen in conjunction with the development of his theories of aesthetics, was the subject of my undergraduate thesis, so this is my specialist area, if any is! (not that that means much). To answer MI's question, IMO - and as I've said many times before - in general the later Janacek it is, the more pure, stripped-down and pure Janacek it is, and so one answer is: the last pieces, that is, the second string quartet, the Glagolitic Mass, and From the House of the Dead. I'd also put the reconstruction of the Violin Concerto in there, because it's very late and very pure in style, though not 'real' Janacek in some senses. But even being drastically ruthless, I couldn't exclude from any list: The Cunning Little Vixen, Kat'a Kabanova or The Diary of One Who Disappeared. And that is cutting down things painfully, because I don't think there is a post Jenufa work by Janacek that isn't seared on my mind! (He's my favourite composer, if it needs pointing out)

Thanks Luke for sharing your thoughts and feelings on Janacek. I can understand why you love his music. I'm starting to love a lot of it myself. Some of the first works I heard by Janacek were Sinfonietta, Taras Bulba, Lachian Dances, and Glagolitic Mass. I really enjoyed his music, but I was so busy with other composers at the time that I didn't really spend much time with it. Now, I'm having a bit of a Janacek renaissance and will next move onto his operas, which many months ago I acquired the Decca set with Charles Mackerras so I'm sure this will prove a rewarding experience.

I acquired this set a few days ago:

[asin]B0046VRR7S[/asin]

I figured since I already owned all Mackerras Decca recordings, why not own this set as well.