Janáček (Leoš' Lair)

Started by karlhenning, June 12, 2007, 04:21:16 AM

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North Star

Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2014, 08:18:02 AM
I was somewhat mocked by my two buds yesterday for playing the Mackerras 'Sinfonietta'. It's funny, but usually when my musical choice is being mocked, I always hear it from their perspective, and how ridiculous all this bom-bah sounds to them, and I usually turn it off, horrified that I listen to such garbage! :-[

But, yesterday, with my friends mocking the 'Sinfonietta'- the ONE CRITICISM every NORMIE has about ANY Classical Music is that it "SOUNDS LIKE A MOVIE"!!- and, obviously, the Sinfonietta is no different. At least my friends could pick 'what was happening'- snow storm, train ride, and so forth- lolz ensued!- but I did not feel ashamed because of the Sinfonietta. Sure, it is "culturally programmatic", or "movie like", or "just typical classical music that normies think sounds like StarWars", but, for me not to actually feel their embarrassment says something about Janacek's invention. He flits back and forth quickly, so that the mockers attention is taken up and their mocking is, at least, turned into some kind of familiarity by the end (I couldn't believe it played to the end of the conversation- unheard of!!).

So, at least as far as that classic Mackerras goes (and I have NEVER recommended any other recording but that one- as The Only One!), it has stood the test of time and redneck mockers to remain at least at the base of my foundation of 20th century music (or, frankly, classical "movie" music in general). My friend would rather have heard LvB 9 (oh, such an individual ::)).

But, just tell me what it is you don't like about the first 30 seconds of the Sinfonietta? On the Mackerras, those trumpets and drums have an impact like no other recording.

bah-bah-bah-bah-bah DUN-DUN-DUN- - Dun Dun - mm
Which of the three do you mean, Supraphon, EMI or Decca? (I only know & own the EMI & Decca Mackerras Sinfoniettas)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

I love the Sinfonietta.  Curiously, it was somehow not a piece which WCRB would play to death . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

North Star

#282
Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
I love the Sinfonietta.  Curiously, it was somehow not a piece which WCRB would play to death . . . .
Perhaps we should thank Leoš for omitting the descriptive names, as that could have changed things. :)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

snyprrr

Quote from: North Star on May 21, 2014, 08:35:39 AM
Which of the three do you mean, Supraphon, EMI or Decca? (I only know & own the EMI & Decca Mackerras Sinfoniettas)

Decca

EigenUser

Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2014, 08:18:02 AM
I was somewhat mocked by my two buds yesterday for playing the Mackerras 'Sinfonietta'. It's funny, but usually when my musical choice is being mocked, I always hear it from their perspective, and how ridiculous all this bom-bah sounds to them, and I usually turn it off, horrified that I listen to such garbage! :-[

But, yesterday, with my friends mocking the 'Sinfonietta'- the ONE CRITICISM every NORMIE has about ANY Classical Music is that it "SOUNDS LIKE A MOVIE"!!- and, obviously, the Sinfonietta is no different. At least my friends could pick 'what was happening'- snow storm, train ride, and so forth- lolz ensued!- but I did not feel ashamed because of the Sinfonietta. Sure, it is "culturally programmatic", or "movie like", or "just typical classical music that normies think sounds like StarWars", but, for me not to actually feel their embarrassment says something about Janacek's invention. He flits back and forth quickly, so that the mockers attention is taken up and their mocking is, at least, turned into some kind of familiarity by the end (I couldn't believe it played to the end of the conversation- unheard of!!).

So, at least as far as that classic Mackerras goes (and I have NEVER recommended any other recording but that one- as The Only One!), it has stood the test of time and redneck mockers to remain at least at the base of my foundation of 20th century music (or, frankly, classical "movie" music in general). My friend would rather have heard LvB 9 (oh, such an individual ::)).

But, just tell me what it is you don't like about the first 30 seconds of the Sinfonietta? On the Mackerras, those trumpets and drums have an impact like no other recording.

bah-bah-bah-bah-bah DUN-DUN-DUN- - Dun Dun - mm
I just though that it was annoying, repetitive, and I didn't like what was being repeated.

I'm a dead man. :o (well, you did ask ;))
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

North Star

Quote from: EigenUser on May 21, 2014, 11:37:06 AM
I just though that it was annoying, repetitive, and I didn't like what was being repeated.

I'm a dead man. :o (well, you did ask ;))
You might be exhonorated if you listened to some of the operas.  8)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: EigenUser on May 21, 2014, 11:37:06 AM
I just though that it was annoying, repetitive, and I didn't like what was being repeated.

I'm a dead man. :o (well, you did ask ;))

If you are talking about the fanfares (first and last movements)...well, yes, they are repetitive. That's the nature of fanfares. I loved it from first listen (age 18, I think) but I recall my best friend's sister going baliistic when we repeated that first movement track several times. She came out of her room threatening bodily harm if we didn't play something else  ;D Apparently the music does annoy certain people.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 21, 2014, 12:05:52 PMApparently the music does annoy certain people.

Sarge

Clearly, a highly useful piece of intelligence 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2014, 12:47:12 PM
Clearly, a highly useful piece of intelligence 8)

...if one wants to avert bodily harm, yes  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Madiel

I actually find Janacek far more 'movie-like' than almost any other composer. The fragmentary nature of the material is very modern, and atmospheric.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 21, 2014, 12:51:32 PM
...if one wants to avert bodily harm, yes  8)

Sarge

As Bertram would say, the cornerstone of my policy!

Thread Duty:

It has got to be time for me to hunker down and listen to a few of the operas.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: karlhenning on May 23, 2014, 05:03:09 AM

It has got to be time for me to hunker down and listen to a few of the operas.

Please listen to Kata Kabanova, Karl. I think you'll enjoy it. Some of the best music Janacek ever wrote IMHO.

ZauberdrachenNr.7

I thought this a very moving performance by a quartet of young'uns (Quartet Noce) of the first movement of Janáček's Kreutzer from NPR's From the Top.  Starts at 21:  http://www.fromthetop.org/content/listen-show-283-boston-massachusetts

Lisztianwagner

I listened to Janáček's Jenufa for the first time two months; it was my introduction to Janáček's operas as well as Czech opera in general, and I absolutely enjoyed it; what a stunning masterpiece! :D The melody is very dramatic, colourful and suggestive, it seems to have an incredible realism and expressiveness! I was really impressed by the  brilliant orchestration, it creates so thrilling, hauntingly beautiful atmospheres and so deep, vivid emotions (the xylphone is wonderful to depicts the inexorable flow of the time, of the vanes of the mill, but also the Laca's sharp knife); the incisiveness of the musical texture, with the use of dissonances, irregular rhythms, sudden transitions, ostinati, is absolutely mesmerizing. I loved that sort of slavonic dance in the first act, when Steva called for music and started to dance with the group of soldiers, the girls and the musicians.
Kostelnička is a very interesting and complex character, she somehow remembers me the Wotan of Das Rheingold: both of them are the leading guide of their people, both of them rule with law and justice, but they try to evade them to impose their will; both of them commit a terrible act against Nature and create the conditions for their own end, but also eventually both of them come to redemption.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

North Star

Splendid post, Ilaria! Have you heard some of the other operas yet?
(note to self: next thing I buy will be the rest of the mature Janáček operas...)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: North Star on September 09, 2014, 01:01:52 PM
Splendid post, Ilaria! Have you heard some of the other operas yet?
(note to self: next thing I buy will be the rest of the mature Janáček operas...)

Thank you, Karlo! Not yet, but I'm looking forward to listening to more; do you have any suggestion?
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

North Star

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 09, 2014, 01:26:46 PM
Thank you, Karlo! Not yet, but I'm looking forward to listening to more; do you have any suggestion?
Oh, you're in for a treat with Cunning Little Vixen, Makropulos Affair, House of the Dead, Káťa Kabanová and The Excursions of Mr. Brouček (I need to listen to that one again myself, too)  8)
I know Vixen and House most well, but perhaps it's a good idea to listen to them chronologically (Brouček, Kát'a, Vixen, Makropulos, House of the Dead)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Lisztianwagner

#297
Quote from: North Star on September 09, 2014, 01:38:08 PM
Oh, you're in for a treat with Cunning Little Vixen, Makropulos Affair, House of the Dead, Káťa Kabanová and The Excursions of Mr. Brouček (I need to listen to that one again myself, too)  8)
I know Vixen and House most well, but perhaps it's a good idea to listen to them chronologically (Brouček, Kát'a, Vixen, Makropulos, House of the Dead)

Thank you very much! Yes, the chronological order is fine, it would be nice to listen to how Janacek's style develops in his operas; I don't know the Cunning Little Vixen (apart from the orchestral suite), but it's a famous work, I've already heard about it; The House of the Dead sounds great since I have read Dostoevsky's novel.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

Mirror Image

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 09, 2014, 12:55:23 PM
I listened to Janáček's Jenufa for the first time two months; it was my introduction to Janáček's operas as well as Czech opera in general, and I absolutely enjoyed it; what a stunning masterpiece! :D The melody is very dramatic, colourful and suggestive, it seems to have an incredible realism and expressiveness! I was really impressed by the  brilliant orchestration, it creates so thrilling, hauntingly beautiful atmospheres and so deep, vivid emotions (the xylphone is wonderful to depicts the inexorable flow of the time, of the vanes of the mill, but also the Laca's sharp knife); the incisiveness of the musical texture, with the use of dissonances, irregular rhythms, sudden transitions, ostinati, is absolutely mesmerizing. I loved that sort of slavonic dance in the first act, when Steva called for music and started to dance with the group of soldiers, the girls and the musicians.
Kostelnička is a very interesting and complex character, she somehow remembers me the Wotan of Das Rheingold: both of them are the leading guide of their people, both of them rule with law and justice, but they try to evade them to impose their will; both of them commit a terrible act against Nature and create the conditions for their own end, but also eventually both of them come to redemption.

Excellent, Ilaria! Jenufa is a very good opera. My favorite Janáček opera, however, is Káťa Kabanová. This opera, next to Bartók's Bluebeard's Castle, may very well be my favorite opera by any composer. That's how fantastic I think this Janáček is! 8) Can't wait to read more of your comments regarding this composer's operas.

TheGSMoeller

Thanks for the opera discussion on Janacek, and keep them going!  8)
Two decades ago I started listening to Sinfonietta, Taras Bulba and Glagolitic Mass. A decade ago I discovered the Strings Quartets and Violin Sonata (thanks in part to the film The Unbearable Lightness of Being), and just now I'm getting into Janacek's other chamber works (phenomenal piano music) and various orchestral suites. All just tremendously excellent music. 
I have heard most of The Cunning Little Vixen, and do have Káťa Kabanová in my MP3 collection but haven't listened to it. Well need to catch up on his opera for sure. Just ordered a bunch of chamber music and the Decca Box Set, once I get through those perhaps I'll move on to the operas.
I know John and I share the same high praise for the MTT/LSO Mass & Sinfonietta disc, that's a desert island disc.