Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Lol yeah, dunno why I've been looking so much to these old threads lately. Almost a year ago there was a period I hardly commented at all.

[Ken B]

Here you go:



As for the question posed in the title, I usually consider soundtracks to be classical if they are orchestral. That's just my opinion, though.

They are classical if they are good. Otherwise they are "crossover."

[zamyrabyrd]

Apparently, Star Wars was considered classical enough for classical ballet:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMbdG6eB-8

My opinion is the movements and music here are a cultural mismatch.
Also film music such as this instance is mainly about effects, getting a rise out of the audience, so as music it is largely superficial.

ZB

[bigshot]

Actually, soundtracks are non-visual, non-verbal storytelling. As such, they have a lot in common with programmatic music.

[Gurn Blanston]

Actually, soundtracks are non-visual, non-verbal storytelling. As such, they have a lot in common with programmatic music.

They have notes, so they have a lot in common with programmatic music....

Apparently, Star Wars was considered classical enough for classical ballet:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMbdG6eB-8

My opinion is the movements and music here are a cultural mismatch.
Also film music such as this instance is mainly about effects, getting a rise out of the audience, so as music it is largely superficial.

ZB

Mine too. It isn't a question of liking or disliking, it is simply that film music has a specific purpose, and when done right, it serves that purpose well. It helps tell the story of the film.

Programmatic music tells its own story, whatever that may be and however it is abused along the way. A crucial difference when it comes to definitions! 

[relm1]

They have notes, so they have a lot in common with programmatic music....

Mine too. It isn't a question of liking or disliking, it is simply that film music has a specific purpose, and when done right, it serves that purpose well. It helps tell the story of the film.

Programmatic music tells its own story, whatever that may be and however it is abused along the way. A crucial difference when it comes to definitions! 

Isn't that true of the Firebird and Rite of Spring too?

[jochanaan]

Isn't that true of the Firebird and Rite of Spring too?

The difference between ballet and opera on the one hand, and "tone poems" and other "program" music on the other, is that ballet and opera, like film music, is by definition designed to mesh with or supplement the visual and dramatic elements, while tone poems etc. are designed to be as complete as possible on their own.  Vivaldi's The Seasons, for example, relies on easily-understood sound devices like the birdsongs in Spring, the thunder rolls in Summer, and the hunting calls in Autumn.  Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique, while it uses some more obscure techniques like the idée fixe, also uses some obvious thunder rolls and an axe-strike from the full orchestra.  (It must be said, though, that even in music without titles or obvious programs, many Romantic commentators read lots of things into Romantic music.  Clara Schumann, for example--I think it was she--called Brahms' Symphony #3 "A Forest Idyll" and sketched a program for it. )

[Scion7]

Don't really think it counts as 'music' - ok, it's music, but it is 'orrible.  What a racket.  One of the more boring soundtracks out there.

[71 dB]

Don't really think it counts as 'music' - ok, it's music, but it is 'orrible.  What a racket.  One of the more boring soundtracks out there.

Are you for real?  One of the more boring soundtracks out there? Compared to what? Who can consider Yoda's theme horrible music? I'm stunned. Well, you thinking that isn't away from me I guess. Just stunned at some of the opinions people write online.

[Scion7]

Sorry, Sheldon - I just doesn't likes it.

At all.

It's the kind of simplistic drivel that gives very young people the wrong idea about orchestrated music, and that much harder to lead them to true creative genuine works by serious composers.

[71 dB]

Sorry, Sheldon - I just doesn't likes it.

At all.

It's the kind of simplistic drivel that gives very young people the wrong idea about orchestrated music, and that much harder to lead them to true creative genuine works by serious composers.

Yes, it is "simplistic" because it's music for a movie full on other sounds. However, John Williams' movie music tend to be among the most complex and sophisticated so you should hate many other soundtracks even more, I do because some of them are just abyssmal. The primary purpose of movie music is to enhance the movie experience rather than make young people interested of Schoenberg. If it makes youngsters interested of classical music in general (and I belive it has done that to some degree) it's just a plus.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I love Yoda's theme as well. It is so calming and it has much of nostalgia value to me. Star wars music in general has, in fact.

[relm1]

Yes, it is "simplistic" because it's music for a movie full on other sounds. However, John Williams' movie music tend to be among the most complex and sophisticated so you should hate many other soundtracks even more, I do because some of them are just abyssmal. The primary purpose of movie music is to enhance the movie experience rather than make young people interested of Schoenberg. If it makes youngsters interested of classical music in general (and I belive it has done that to some degree) it's just a plus.

This is for you Sheldon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyWR_6QNqm8

[vandermolen]

Star Wars actually 'borrowed' from classical music. In particular I noticed a thematic similarity between the March from Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' and 'March of the Ewoks' from Star Wars: 'Return of the Jedi'. 

[71 dB]

Star Wars actually 'borrowed' from classical music. In particular I noticed a thematic similarity between the March from Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' and 'March of the Ewoks' from Star Wars: 'Return of the Jedi'. 

'Parade of the Ewoks' actually.

Does Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' count as classical music? Does classical music cease to count as classical music when you borrow it?

[Karl Henning]

Does Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' count as classical music? Does classical music cease to count as classical music when you borrow it?

Today's black-&-white questions

[Rinaldo]

Don't really think it counts as 'music' - ok, it's music, but it is 'orrible.  What a racket.  One of the more boring soundtracks out there.

Ouch, I can understand somebody not liking the Star Wars soundtracks one bit but boring? With all those rousing themes running around like crazy?

Anyway, this music has been etched into my memory since I was a kid so I'm beyond biased, but recently I've listened to the soundtracks after maybe 10 or more years and even though my musical tastes have expanded / shifted immensely and a lot of stuff I've used to like doesn't do it for me anymore, the Original Trilogy is so full of joy and fun and wonder that still makes my heart soar. Sure, I'll never know how this music would've worked without the context of the movie experience but stuff like this

https://www.youtube.com/v/d3IIeNorhVU

https://www.youtube.com/v/L63In39n86c

makes my hair stand without having to imagine a spaceship getting chased through an asteroid field or somebody beating up his own father.

[relm1]

I agree with you, Rinaldo.  This isn't just exceptional music, it is music that elevates the scene tremendously to the point it stands on its own without the scene.  This music is also very, very complex and I would argue virtuosically written.  Few people have studied this collective work as thoroughly as I have and I would be happy to explain why it is not the result of a charlatan composer nor as simplistic as it might seem during a cursory listen.  The innovation is really in how it uniquely combines every element of music at such consistently high quality with tremendous effectiveness.  It will stand the test of time beyond the films, I believe, and part of the reason for this in how well it is so representative of the various styles of the time (jazz, pop, classical fusion hybrid with a Ravelian skill of orchestration and a Wagnerian sense of pacing and drama).  Sort of like how the Beatles = 1960's British invasion.  That style really doesn't fit with 1970's dissolution or 1950's idealism but the transition because it influenced, challenged, and echoed the attitudes and experiences of its time and place so succinctly and influentially. 

[jochanaan]

...This music is also very, very complex and I would argue virtuosically written...

I concur.  For one thing, this is music that orchestras actually have to rehearse!  Very unlike, say, Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings score, which is much more simplistic. -- But it's by no means the only complex, beautiful, brilliant film score out there.  From Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky and Korngold's The Adventures of Robin Hood, to John Corigliano's Altered States and Philip Glass's Koyaanisqatsi and (I haven't seen too many movies in a while, so insert whatever brilliant score has been written in the last few years), there are lots of beauties.

[Sammy]

I voted no although I don't have a good reason.  I thought the movie sucked big-time and the music did nothing for me, just typical movie music.