Author Topic: Jean-Philippe Rameau  (Read 27194 times)

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Offline J.II.9

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2016, 02:15:52 AM »
This might be of interest:


RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner

Offline Monsieur Croche

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2016, 03:44:20 AM »
This might be of interest:


RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner
First, the album on the left reminded me that... anyone not familiar with Marcel Meyer's musicianship should run to any recordings of hers they can find, whether that be Rameau, Scarlatti, or Debussy. She was a consummate pianist and musician.

To the main deal here, imo Rameau is a composer who is at the very least of equal greatness to J.S. Bach, and this looks to be a great bundle of works and performances.
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Offline The new erato

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2016, 08:33:30 AM »
This might be of interest:


RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner
I have nearly all of them them as single issues. Except for that Nais, which I've never heard of  ;). It's a pretty nice Zais though, even if I prefer Roussets new performnce on Aparte.

Marcelle Meyer's Rameau is exceptional, agreed.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 08:41:11 AM by The new erato »

Offline Peter Power Pop

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2016, 05:36:44 PM »
This might be of interest:


RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner

That Rameau box set was discussed in the "Baroque Opera" thread.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 10:41:19 PM by Peter Power Pop »

Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2016, 03:33:34 PM »
imo Rameau is a composer who is at the very least of equal greatness to J.S. Bach

I agree, he wrote some of the best music I've heard and it's sad to see that this thread is only 4 pages long while Havergal Brian has one longer than his first symphony!  ???

Here are some fine performances of Rameau's operatic masterpieces to get started:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/?v=I7WGkZcxDLc" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/?v=I7WGkZcxDLc</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=C-iGGT0iLLE" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=C-iGGT0iLLE</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=jVoW2wPaMHU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=jVoW2wPaMHU</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=n1SzKPjHL1I" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=n1SzKPjHL1I</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=JlVsEnOpCao" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=JlVsEnOpCao</a>


The solo keyboard works:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=M4hf9ak9HnU" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=M4hf9ak9HnU</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=qr5ur2hzpBs" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=qr5ur2hzpBs</a>

The chamber music:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=gkcUOht1i4c" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=gkcUOht1i4c</a>

And don't forget the motets:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v?v=XHYlnyO_x4o" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v?v=XHYlnyO_x4o</a>

Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2016, 04:00:29 PM »
'the equal of J.S. Bach'

sigh .......

Can't we just appreciate his music without making outrageous claims?
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Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2016, 04:17:41 PM »
'the equal of J.S. Bach'

sigh .......

Can't we just appreciate his music without making outrageous claims?

How is it an outrageous claim? How many of his works have you heard? His style is very different but not lesser than Bach's, and along with Monteverdi I consider them the Big 3 of the Baroque era.

Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2016, 04:42:53 PM »
A lot.  He's a good composer, but he's nowhere in the same league as Bach,

nor is he in the "big three" of Vivaldi, Bach and Handel.
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Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2016, 05:13:34 PM »
A lot.  He's a good composer, but he's nowhere in the same league as Bach,

nor is he in the "big three" of Vivaldi, Bach and Handel.

Why not?

I do think he's a better composer than Vivaldi and Handel, but then again I'm not that fond Italian opera after Monteverdi and Cavalli until Gluck's reforms. Rameau's critical standing and popularity is increasing and in the next few years placing him alongside Bach may not appear as outlandish as it seems to you.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 05:20:51 PM by Chronochromie »

Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2016, 08:23:34 PM »
Won't ever happen.  History has made its decision at least 200 years ago.
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Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2016, 08:35:50 PM »
Won't ever happen.  History has made its decision at least 200 years ago.

History hasn't made its decision, but you clearly have.

Now, I'd like to see some actual comments on Rameau's music. Anyone?

Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2016, 05:20:43 AM »
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2016, 06:46:54 AM »
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

You mean the two greatest besides Mozart , right?  ;D

Quote
History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.

History is one thing, Academia quite another. The abridged history of academia is an ever-evolving list of dead ideas and theories.  ;D
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”  --- Victor Hugo

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2016, 07:04:34 AM »
Rameau's biggest contribution to music is without any doubt the Treatise on Harmony. Whether it was a positive or negative contribution is more disputable.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2016, 07:08:16 AM »
Rameau's biggest contribution to [the theory of music] is without any doubt the Treatise on Harmony.

There, fixed.
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”  --- Victor Hugo

Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2016, 08:58:53 AM »
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.

Sorry, but you're really underestimating Rameau. His Treatise on Harmony was enormously influential before he even started writing opera, his music was a major influence on Gluck's reforms which influenced Berlioz, who influenced Wagner. He's arguably more important to music history than J.S. Bach (whose influence on anything is overstated). What you or any academic think about it will not change that.

Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2016, 02:24:03 PM »
Oh, my goodness gracious me  .  .  .  :-X
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Offline Chronochromie

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2016, 02:49:45 PM »
Good. Now that this is over with, let us talk about Rameau.

Does anyone know of a good recording of Platée? Agnew's isn't ideal and the reviews of Minkowski's put me off.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2016, 12:14:52 AM »
Maybe we can agree that Jean-Philippe deserves at least so much respect that his given name is spelled properly in the thread title.

(I do not think academics have "rated" or compared composers in such a sophomoric fashion since many decades although one might find something like it in writings from the 50s by the likes of Alfred Einstein or Adorno (who wrote about the beginning of Beethoven's C major mass that it sounded more like a weak Mendelssohn and did not seem to care for any high baroque but Bach)). One is more likely to find such "best of baroque" lists on music magazine sites or discussion fora...)
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Offline Scion7

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Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2016, 03:58:48 AM »
The lectures given at the 400 level and graduate level are hardly "sophomoric" - the 'ratings' are not lists - they simply stress the OVERWHELMING critical consensus of the views on Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc.  I've watched panels of four or five musicologists debate this many times at several universities, and although there may be one revisionist, that person's views never persuade, nor have the textbooks taken any such changes.

That is nothing against other composers per se, just that these men were the crème de la crème.
Your barricades lie broken ... your enemies lord.