Saul's Music Space

[karlhenning]

You're too kind - I'm squirming a bit, listening again! But, with a little practice... anyway, it provides an illustration, which was all I intended.

All that filigree is so apparently pattern-resistant, that (like much of my music, really) it seems almost designed particularly to resist sight-reading.  No needto squirm!  You've done very well, and it serves as a most helpful illustration, thanks!

[Luke]

All that filigree is so apparently pattern-resistant, that (like much of my music, really) it seems almost designed particularly to resist sight-reading.  No needto squirm!  You've done very well, and it serves as a most helpful illustration, thanks!

It's those darned repeated notes that I wasn't expecting!

[Florestan]

Saul,

I'm sure that your compositions might have a sentimental value to you and your dear nephews and I respect your creative effort. But when it comes to Baroque keyboard music, I prefer Bach and Scarlatti anytime over them. I always value the original more than the pastiche.

Face it manly: "classical music" (in the absurdly narrow sense you understand it) is dead, in the sense that no effort to revive it compositionally would ever achieve the level of the great masters you so dearly revere. One cannot live in AD 2010, compose like in AD 1710 and pretend to be taken seriously as a professional composer.

Be it said without any enmity towards you.

[Luke]

Yes, in the same vein, and as Karl did earlier, I ought to say that there is a baroque influence on my own compositions, at times, certainly, but it's not there as pastiche, it's been absorbed and used to my own ends. As, for instance, in this piece for clavichord from 2004 - the instrument itself is baroque, of course, but it's more the material of the piece, the ornaments, vastly slowed down or at 'proper' speed, fully written out and otherwise, and the way they determine the melodic structure of the piece. (The audio file, once again, is at a very low bitrate so that I can attach it; more to the point, it is EXTREMELY quiet, but then that's what clavichords are like, and the intimacy is partly why I love them so much - the microphone was hanging an inch above the strings and I've amplified it 250%, and it is still scarcely audible!)

[Luke]

....on the other hand, there are pieces I have written in a more literally Baroque style, I suppose, such as the fugues with subjects drawn from silly 1980's pop songs that I've been talking about recently on my own thread. Now, they aren't actually strictly Baroque in style - in fact, stylistically, they vary considerably - but it wasn't my intention to write baroque pastiche. However, one thing they certainly aren't is me composing in my own voice - they started out as a little joke, and I enjoyed doing them, so in a light-hearted way I carried on.

Here, for instance, is a fugue whose subject is taken from a stupid party-time song called Agadoo (did you escape it in the US?). It's the lightest, frothiest nonsense imaginable, so as a joke I set it in the key of C sharp major and in 5 parts, wildly slowed-down - as a cheeky but vague reference to the profound 5 part C sharp minor fugue in book one of the 48. It's not Bach in style, it modulates in places a baroque composer wouldn't go, and it uses harmonies they wouldn't use. And - oh yeah - it's rubbish.

The point is, though - these pieces mean little to me, even though I spent some time on them, (much more than on the clavichord piece I just posted which was written in 10 minutes at most, but which I prefer vastly) because they aren't in my own style. They were fun, no more, they are probably chock full of errors, they are silly - and they don't make it onto my official 'worklist', such as it is. Notice the other piece has a proper recording, quiet though it is. This one is just a MIDI - it doesn't deserve more.

I think the comparison between these two pieces is the way I would illustrate what I think of as the irrelevance of composing in an archaic style in 2010 - it can be done, but to me, anyway, only as an exercise or a joke. Not as a serious part of one's output. IMO. The past is with us in the present, we use it all the time, with love and respect...but I don't think we should just try to recreate it.

[greg]

Its too, how should I say it...disorganized lacking direction and unity.

It isn't as straightforward as other music, but a lot of Schoenberg and Webern is organized, just in a way that may not be as easily perceptible (you just have to listen closely- and if you can't do that, you probably shouldn't be listening to classical music anyways).

For example, Schoenberg's Piano Suite has large sections that are repeated, and his Variations for Orchestra are very straightforward- you have the "BACH" theme (notes B-A-C-Bb) and variations on it. Typical variations form.

[Luke]

Oooh, spotted a parallel in that fugue too, just as I did with another one earlier. Fixed now, simply by exchanging parts for a few notes. These rules are such a swizz 

[Joe_Campbell]

You understand  and enjoy your own self-professed "gibberish" which isn't actually atonal in the first place? I still don't believe for a second that all of your previous hatred was just an "act" to elicit passionate responses. You've been on this board far too long for that kind of about-face to hold any weight.

[Saul]

It isn't as straightforward as other music, but a lot of Schoenberg and Webern is organized, just in a way that may not be as easily perceptible (you just have to listen closely- and if you can't do that, you probably shouldn't be listening to classical music anyways).

Greg, you're not making any sense, there is no reason not to listen to classical music, especially if you dislike certain composers or can't really get them.

[Saul]

You understand  and enjoy your own self-professed "gibberish" which isn't actually atonal in the first place? I still don't believe for a second that all of your previous hatred was just an "act" to elicit passionate responses. You've been on this board far too long for that kind of about-face to hold any weight.

It just proves what a great act it was , you still believe it.

I said that Rachmaninov and other famous composers wrote 'worthless music', if you really believe that I meant that, then you just naive.
It was all to generate a discussion, that's all.

[Scarpia]

I said that Rachmaninov and other famous composers wrote 'worthless music', if you really believe that I meant that, then you just naive.
It was all to generate a discussion, that's all.

So you are essentially admitting that you are a Troll.  Big surprise. 

[Bulldog]

It just proves what a great act it was , you still believe it.

I said that Rachmaninov and other famous composers wrote 'worthless music', if you really believe that I meant that, then you just naive.
It was all to generate a discussion, that's all.

You appear to be the proud manipulator.  Perhaps all your past religious pronouncements are also pure garbage.  At any rate, your words just blow in the wind, and there's no reason to believe anything you say.

[Saul]

Saul,

I'm sure that your compositions might have a sentimental value to you and your dear nephews and I respect your creative effort. But when it comes to Baroque keyboard music, I prefer Bach and Scarlatti anytime over them. I always value the original more than the pastiche.

Face it manly: "classical music" (in the absurdly narrow sense you understand it) is dead, in the sense that no effort to revive it compositionally would ever achieve the level of the great masters you so dearly revere. One cannot live in AD 2010, compose like in AD 1710 and pretend to be taken seriously as a professional composer.

Be it said without any enmity towards you.

This is a reply to Florestan, Luke, Karl and Greg

I have heard all your comments but please understand that whatever you say here is an opinion, and I do respect it, but others have told me differently and hold a different opinion, more positive that is about my music.

For example a few years ago I have met with the wonderful and amazing Pianist Eliran Avni in The Juilliard school of music. He used to teach piano there.  We met in Juilliard, and he took me to one of the Piano rooms there. He criticized a number of my compositions and played some of my works on the piano for me.

He said that I have some good ideas about classical music, and that further study is necessary in order to polish and advance my technique of composition. He then told me that if I want to compose classical music, I should be very strict with the rules therefore he recommended to me Walter Piston's 'Harmony'.

He then performed in front of me an atonal modern piece by one of his friends in Juilliard.
All throughout the performance, I was thinking to myself 'what in the world is he playing' but I pretended to like it so not to embarrass him. To my surprise when he finished playing the work, he told me :"You see Saul? This is my friend's music, he studied all the rules and all the theories of music and he doesn't break the laws, but what is this?" he said it with a clear face that translates to :"This music is really bad, and pointless".

He therefore encouraged me to peruse classical theory study on a professional level, he didn't encourage me to go down the 'Atonal Avenue' of composition, probably because he is an insider from within the classical music world, he knows the value of true classical music, and on the other hand the value of the tons of almost pointless modern music that is composed today.

From the selected works that I showed him for review, two works caught his attention, and after he played them he told me that he wants to take these two works of mine, and show them to his Professor, he really enjoyed them. The first one is the F major Prelude No.1 and the Second one is the Rondo In D major. The F major Prelude is written more in the Baroque style, while the D major Rondo is more attuned to the Classical Era.

This is the Prelude In F major that he Liked:

I will also post the Score if Luke or any other pianist here would like to play it here and upload it here, this would be nice, I will also upload my performance of it on a later date.

http://www.youtube.com/v/yyxmz4pRK_g


Best Saul

[Scarpia]

This is a reply to Florestan, Luke, Karl and Greg

I have heard all your comments but please understand that whatever you say here is an opinion, and I do respect it, but others have told me differently and hold a different opinion, more positive that is about my music.

For example a few years ago I have met with the wonderful and amazing Pianist Eliran Avni in The Juilliard school of music. He used to teach piano there.  We met in Juilliard, and he took me to one of the Piano rooms there. He criticized a number of my compositions and played some of my works on the piano for me.

He said that I have some good ideas about classical music, and that further study is necessary in order to polish and advance my technique of composition. He then told me that if I want to compose classical music, I should be very strict with the rules therefore he recommended to me Walter Piston's 'Harmony'.

He then performed in front of me an atonal modern piece by one of his friends in Juilliard.
All throughout the performance, I was thinking to myself 'what in the world is he playing' but I pretended to like so not to embarrass him. To my surprise when he finished playing the work, he told me :"You see Saul? This is my friend's music, he studied all the rules and all the theories of music and he doesn't break the laws, but what is this?" he said it with a clear face that translates to :"This music is really bad, and pointless".

He therefore encouraged me to peruse classical theory study on a professional level, he didn't encourage me to go down the 'Atonal Avenue' of composition, probably because he is an insider from within the classical music world, he knows the value of true classical music, and on the other hand the value of the tons of almost pointless modern music that is composed today.

From the selected works that I showed him for review, two works caught his attention, and after he played them he told me that he wants to take these two works of mine, and show it to his Professor, he really enjoyed them. The first one if the F major Prelude No.1 and the Second one is the Rondo In D major. The F major Prelude is written more in the Baroque style, while the D major Rondo is more attuned to the Classical Era.

This is the Prelude In F major that he Liked:

I will also post the Score if Luke or any other pianist here would like to play it here and upload it here, this would be nice, I will also upload my performance of it on a later date.

http://www.youtube.com/v/yyxmz4pRK_g


Best Saul

Are all these statement lies also?

[Saul]

Are all these statement lies also?

An Absolute truth. This is in all seriousness, and I'm saying this with honesty.

[knight66]

You did shoot yourself in the foot by setting up a situation, sticking to it, then telling everyone you had only done it for effect. It is difficult now to know where you are coming from.

Mike

[Scarpia]

An Absolute truth. This is in all seriousness, and I'm saying this with honesty.

And is that a lie?  What credibility do you think you have when you tell us you will post any trash just to wind us up? 

[Saul]

You did shoot yourself in the foot by setting up a situation, sticking to it, then telling everyone you had only done it for effect. It is difficult now to know where you are coming from.

Mike

Ok, but I still enjoyed the entire discussion and the composing of these pieces, I had a great time. 

[knight66]

Saul, this is not a sandpit set up mainly for your amusement. People here clearly feel manipulated and it will be difficult for you to retrieve the ground you have now lost. The fact of your enjoying winding people only makes the hole you dug a bit deeper.

Mike

[Saul]

And is that a lie?  What credibility do you think you have when you tell us you will post any trash just to wind us up?

There is no reason for me to wind you up here.
If you like you can send Eliran Avni the Pianist an Email and ask him about me, I hope he still remembers me.
If he contradicts anything that I say, then you don't have to believe me anything in the future. This is a true story that Happened with me a number of years ago, perhaps 6 years ago. I have said this in pure honesty and in good faith.


http://www.eliranavni.com/