Saul's Music Space

[Luke]

Good lord...

I've just woken up here in the UK, and what a gorgeous sunny morning it is. Not the sort of day that makes me want to sit and trudge through this any more. This thread seems to have become another little self-promotional shop for Saul and his youtube clips, so there really is little point continuing here; I"m going to get up and away after I've posted this. Saul, number of views means nothing - if you shout about your stuff loud enough, which is what you have been doing for years, people will come and look, regardless of quality. It's a bit like watching a car crash, in that way. And, yes, some people, passing through, will say nice things, because you have MIDI files of pretty sounds and some simple little chord progressions that move up and down in a new-agey manner (as Greg says, very cut-and-paste), and so on, and a lot of people don't ask for more than that - but they are not pieces that could ever be played in the real world, because they don't work for real instruments, and they certanly have nothing at all to do with 'the rules' that you were talking about yesterday.

But to celebrate the beautiful sunny morning here, and to remind ourselves that youtube does have actual real functioning wonderful music on it....

http://www.youtube.com/v/SoGyKYWlbQc

(not Sfz's favourite piece, this, but I think even he will find it something of a refreshing improvement on what has been posted here overnight. We are asked to believe that the composer of this was as nothing compared to Saul....)

[Saul]

Luke,

Yes, the in the real world pianists don't have fingers to perform my works, and violinists just forgot how to read music.

You're making lots of sense Luke...


But keep on toying around with that drivel of Schoenberg, maybe that's the only thing that makes you feel 'intellectual'.

[Mirror Image]

Why, am I not stating reality, that You just know it better and I don't know a thing about anything, not on music , or piano or any other intellectual pursuit...?

So enjoy your triumph , you are the Master KNOW IT ALL Classical Genius that knows everything there is to know about music.
Why are we even talking? what's the point? what ever I will see you will say that I need to be 'schooled'...

Why don't you tell us what you Really think...

You do need training in composition there's no question about it. Even a complete classical novice who only knows Mozart or Haydn will tell you that. Maybe you should try to apply to a college that has a real music department? I'm sure there's somewhere you can go, but judging from the compositions you have provided you will not get in based on these works alone nor will you be accepted based on merit. You have to work hard. You have to do some soul-searching. Find out who Saul (whatever your last name is) really is. Get a piece of sheet paper and nice, sharp pencil with a good eraser and get to work. That's the only way you're going to achieve greatness. Some composers are born with their gifts others have to work at and try to better themselves for their entire lives.

I don't think I know everything, but I know an amateur composer when I hear one. My suggestion is dump this "scholar" you have for a teacher and take some composition courses with real, legitimate composers that you can learn from.

[Mirror Image]

As I stated before, any composer today that can write classical music that follows the rules and traditions of classical music and doesn't compose atonal BS 12 pain headache music such as Schoenberg and his gang, is way superior then any of them beginning with Prokofiev until the latest atonal gatherer of banal sounds.

That was the entire reason of this thread, not to showcase my work, though it somehow happened, that was not the original intention.
I have nothing else to add to this thread, because it was hijacked by those who can't stand a different position in things, and therefore resort to personal attacks. Lots of maturity is still needed in order to discuss things here in a normal manner.

Said the closed-minded, amateur composer.

[Saul]

Said the closed-minded, amateur composer.

Don't you think you had enough Mr. Musical Master of the Universe?

[Mirror Image]

Don't you think you had enough Mr. Musical Master of the Universe?

Just to let everybody know, Saul's original response to me was "Oh, shut up already!" This kind of child-like behavior is exactly what I expect from the world's foremost amateur composer.

[Luke]

Luke,

Yes, the in the real world pianists don't have fingers to perform my works, and violinists just forgot how to read music.

You're making lots of sense Luke...

Thanks. At last you are taking it on board (it isn't only me, though, Saul, you are having sense thrown at you from all angles, and you refuse to listen. It's rather a sad little spectacle really).

Saul, as has been pointed out to you already, some of what you have written and posted is literally impossible or unrealistic to play, that arpeggiated violin part being the most obvious - something that sounds and looks easy and idiomatic to you, because you've seen that sort of thing done before. But in reality you've missed the point of the figuration, you're not handling it in a way that will work, and the computer can't tell you that the actual notes you are writing won't lie under the fingers. Your piano pieces are playable, I guess, should anyone really want to. But they too are hindered by your notation, which frequently makes no sense or rides clumsily over the shape of the music. I remember one piece of yours, years ago, with horror; it was written in 4/4, I think - the computer default, I guess, you didn't bother to change it - but was clearly supposed to be in 3/8. I'm sure you'll tell us that this was a deliberate compositional choice, as you tried to with that F sharp minor-C major fiasco, but if that is the case it makes as little sense in this case as in that.

But keep on toying around with that drivel of Schoenberg, maybe that's the only thing that makes you feel 'intellectual'.

Doesn't make me feel intellectual, that piece I just posted. No, it just excites me, it feels radiant and beautiful and spine-tingling, it has power, grace, depth of sound.

I love that you are trying to turn this into 'intellectuals' vs poor old you....the thread only went that way, Saul, because you were trying to tell us all about how you follow 'the rules' and, finally, after many years of being tactfully quiet, some of us felt it was time to demonstrate to you how little you understand those rules yourself, as demonstrated in your music. (PAnd the sight of you trying to convince us that you understand 'the rules' better than a composer like Schoenberg who lived and breathed them more than almost any other composer ever has...it's just the funniest, saddest thing I"ve seen online). There's nothing wrong with a little MIDI new-age soundscape if that is your bag, no one would be slating it as they have been here if you hadn't been trying to present it to us as in the spirit of Mozart or Mendelssohn.

[karlhenning]

Don't you think you had enough Mr. Musical Master of the Universe?

Just to let everybody know, Saul's original response to me was "Oh, shut up already!" This kind of child-like behavior is exactly what I expect from the world's foremost amateur composer.

Well, he has no substance to argue, so he takes childish refuge in name-calling.

[karlhenning]

Actually, if you spent any real time talking with instead of trashing the composers I enjoy, then you would realize that I only like a few select works from Schoenberg and I find Prokofiev's orchestral output more appealing than his chamber and solo instrumental works.

But I find the violin sonatas rank with the very best of Prokofiev's work.

[Saul]

Thanks. At last you are taking it on board (it isn't only me, though, Saul, you are having sense thrown at you from all angles, and you refuse to listen. It's rather a sad little spectacle really).

Saul, as has been pointed out to you already, some of what you have written and posted is literally impossible or unrealistic to play, that arpeggiated violin part being the most obvious - something that sounds and looks easy and idiomatic to you, because you've seen that sort of thing done before. But in reality you've missed the point of the figuration, you're not handling it in a way that will work, and the computer can't tell you that the actual notes you are writing won't lie under the fingers. Your piano pieces are playable, I guess, should anyone really want to. But they too are hindered by your notation, which frequently makes no sense or rides clumsily over the shape of the music. I remember one piece of yours, years ago, with horror; it was written in 4/4, I think - the computer default, I guess, you didn't bother to change it - but was clearly supposed to be in 3/8. I'm sure you'll tell us that this was a deliberate compositional choice, as you tried to with that F sharp minor-C major fiasco, but if that is the case it makes as little sense in this case as in that.

Doesn't make me feel intellectual, that piece I just posted. No, it just excites me, it feels radiant and beautiful and spine-tingling, it has power, grace, depth of sound.

I love that you are trying to turn this into 'intellectuals' vs poor old you....the thread only went that way, Saul, because you were trying to tell us all about how you follow 'the rules' and, finally, after many years of being tactfully quiet, some of us felt it was time to demonstrate to you how little you understand those rules yourself, as demonstrated in your music. (PAnd the sight of you trying to convince us that you understand 'the rules' better than a composer like Schoenberg who lived and breathed them more than almost any other composer ever has...it's just the funniest, saddest thing I"ve seen online). There's nothing wrong with a little MIDI new-age soundscape if that is your bag, no one would be slating it as they have been here if you hadn't been trying to present it to us as in the spirit of Mozart or Mendelssohn.

You still didn't explain to me and others what in the world Schoenberg's music has beside his name? You know there's a saying :"Its all in the name".

The man doodled clumsy sounds together that sound horrible, I wonder who he wrote his music for?

The elite, that means you?

[greg]

You still didn't explain to me and others what in the world Schoenberg's music has beside his name? You know there's a saying :"Its all in the name".

The man doodled clumsy sounds together that sound horrible, I wonder who he wrote his music for?

The elite, that means you?

You still don't get the point?...

Maybe people like his music just because the like it. Maybe you feel distressed about that, but it's the truth. If people really secretly hated it and only listened because they wanted to seem "elite" or "intellectual," that just wouldn't work for long. They would get tired of it eventually.

[Saul]

You still don't get the point?...

Maybe people like his music just because the like it. Maybe you feel distressed about that, but it's the truth. If people really secretly hated it and only listened because they wanted to seem "elite" or "intellectual," that just wouldn't work for long. They would get tired of it eventually.

I once heard a famous statement by a liberal leader of a western country which I will not name, that 'if we had true culture, we wouldnt have been so afraid to say that we hate classical music'...

Some people hide behind banality in order to say that they understand it, and then put down those who can't stand it. That makes them feel smart.

[karlhenning]

Hmm . . . "doodled clumsy sounds together that sound horrible" reminds me of something . . . definitely not Schoenberg, of course ; )

[Luke]

Not sure which of your threads this belongs on now - sort of a shame that they had to be split up like that, really. Keep all the craziness in one place, that's what I think....

But anyway, just to offset your 'my 13 year old nephew hated Schoenberg' thing from yesterday, I thought you should know that played a group of 12/13 year olds at my school one of Schoenberg's fabulous op 16 orchestral pieces last week (I remembered that now because I just gave one of them a piano lesson and she was talking about it). I expected them not to like it, I though we might get the groans from the back that a bit of classical can sometimes bring out of them, but no, they just loved it, they loved the vigour and excitement and boldness of it all. Proves nothing, that, and isn't trying to, beyond perhaps suggesting that your nephew's gut reaction doesn't tell us anything of value.

[Saul]

Hmm . . . "doodled clumsy sounds together that sound horrible" reminds me of something . . . definitely not Schoenberg, of course ; )

http://www.youtube.com/v/JSMJ0lg9i3s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/v/xrjg3jzP2uI

[Luke]

thanks, Saul, I've had to listen to a lot of banal pap at work today, it's nice to listen to some real music with a bit of guts and spirit, integrity, skill and beauty to it. 

[karlhenning]

Not sure which of your threads this belongs on now - sort of a shame that they had to be split up like that, really. Keep all the craziness in one place, that's what I think....

But anyway, just to offset your 'my 13 year old nephew hated Schoenberg' thing from yesterday, I thought you should know that played a group of 12/13 year olds at my school one of Schoenberg's fabulous op 16 orchestral pieces last week (I remembered that now because I just gave one of them a piano lesson and she was talking about it). I expected them not to like it, I though we might get the groans from the back that a bit of classical can sometimes bring out of them, but no, they just loved it, they loved the vigour and excitement and boldness of it all. Proves nothing, that, and isn't trying to, beyond perhaps suggesting that your nephew's gut reaction doesn't tell us anything of value.

The idea that one must write music to please a 13-year-old is a bit daft, too ; )

[karlhenning]

thanks, Saul, I've had to listen to a lot of banal pap at work today, it's nice to listen to some real music with a bit of guts and spirit, integrity, skill and beauty to it. 

QFT

[Saul]

QFT

Here's something I composed this morning its called

Atonal Gibberish, hope you enjoy it Karl....

http://www.youtube.com/v/qK7hGEZTbxM

[greg]

Hm... thanks for that. Just listened to that piece, and going back to the Schoenberg's 3 Piano Pieces that you just posted makes it sound even sweeter.

There is a ton of atonal music out there which sucks and a ton which is great. That piece you wrote is one of the ones that suck (i guess you made it that way intentionally, though). Not sure what your point is in posting that was.