Saul's Music Space

[Saul]

Saul thanks for the suggestions.  Are there any free programs for Mac?  Money is a problem now, especially big-time money like $600-$700.

Yes, this is a free version for mac, with limited capabilities, its a good thing to start with. Downlaod it to to your computer and beging using this software. Eventually you will want to get the full version, and I must tell you, if you want to save for something, this is it!

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14808/finale-notepad

[Luke]

No, I don't want to write this kind of music. It lacks many things in my opinion. Drama, depth, and meaning. Listen to it carefully again, try to understand what the composers is saying, I just don't get what he wants to say with this piece.

It does lack some of the things that often go with 'drama, depth and meaning' I suppose. But I certainly think that not all music has to be capital letter Deep and Meaningful. In its own small way this piece had its own dramas - little ones, rhythmical ones, dynamic ones, registral ones, the sort of dramas Mozart filled his music with, though obviously applied with a more modern sensibility here. And on a larger level, it did have a 'meaning' to me - can't put it into words, but it was something to do with the happiness that comes with a sense of balance and proportion, old and new together in healthy equilibrium. Nothing shattering, but I liked the flavour.

Now you see that isn't something I get from your pieces, not yet. Where this piece seemed light, easy, and balanced, yours seem laboured and lost, and frustrated, to me...they give off a kind of negative energy, somehow, maybe because there is this tension between what they are trying to do and what they are actually doing. So I'm not really getting any over-arching 'meaning' from your music, and I think it is because of the technical problems and the stylistic confusions holding things back.

[Saul]

It does lack some of the things that often go with 'drama, depth and meaning' I suppose. But I certainly think that not all music has to be capital letter Deep and Meaningful. In its own small way this piece had its own dramas - little ones, rhythmical ones, dynamic ones, registral ones, the sort of dramas Mozart filled his music with, though obviously applied with a more modern sensibility here. And on a larger level, it did have a 'meaning' to me - can't put it into words, but it was something to do with the happiness that comes with a sense of balance and proportion, old and new together in healthy equilibrium. Nothing shattering, but I liked the flavour.

Now you see that isn't something I get from your pieces, not yet. Where this piece seemed light, easy, and balanced, yours seem laboured and lost, and frustrated, to me...they give off a kind of negative energy, somehow, maybe because there is this tension between what they are trying to do and what they are actually doing. So I'm not really getting any over-arching 'meaning' from your music, and I think it is because of the technical problems and the stylistic confusions holding things back.

Luke,

In all honesty what do you think about my Ancient Dance In G minor No.2, I want to know what you think ....

http://www.youtube.com/v/jO4ES7udj8s

[Joe_Campbell]

So we're all naive, then, and you're the great trickster. Congratulations on ensuring you will never again have any credibility in anything.

[Saul]

So we're all naive, then, and you're the great trickster. Congratulations on ensuring you will never again have any credibility in anything.

As I explained before it was meant to generate a vibrant discussion, that's all.
Let's move on now, enough, you have stated what you wanted to say a number of times, its clear, there is no need to dwell on this forever.

I'm sure you'll agree.

[Scarpia]

As I explained before it was meant to generate a vibrant discussion, that's all.
Let's move on now, enough, you have stated what you wanted to say a number of times, its clear, there is no need to dwell on this forever.

I'm sure you'll agree.

We have moved on.

[Saul]

We have moved on.

Merci beaucoup!

[Luke]

Well, again, not really my style, Saul, but I suppose it isn't a zillion miles from the kind of thing Saint-Saens or someone might have written mid 19th century, in the 'oriental' mode. Well, I think that's the kind of style you're aiming at, anyway.

MIDI sounds don't help - I'm not entirely sure what some of those instruments were meant to be! In general I'd say that, for the style I think you are aiming at, there is too much movement and busy-ness too soon after the start. The fairly static opening is quite nice, and if the piece had continued in that vein I think it would have been more successful, though that little four-note figure passsed from instrument to instrument pulls the ear away from the melody a little, I think, and again, it's a bit too busy, IMO. Anyway, you could sustain that mood much better with more restraint, letting the textures be a little less full, and letting repetition have it's full effect. It seemed like the music changed every bar or two, new ideas supplanting the old ones before they had registered in the mind, and in the end, to my ears, the piece lost focus because it didn't latch onto one main idea for long enough. I think maybe you were trying too hard to keep things interesting and to fill the texture out, I don't know. Sometimes less is more (a lesson I need to learn in my own posting habits, don't worry).

I can see why people like listening to this sort of thing Saul, don't get me wrong. Your music can sometimes sound quite pleasant and atmospheric, even when the notation is poor, but I feel that it needs much more careful shaping and a more trigger-happy delete finger getting rid of inessentials to function as well as it could. You churn out a lot of ideas, in this piece and others, but few of them really register because 1) they are not striking enough,  2) they don't stick around long enough and 3) they are often very similar to each other, so that the piece ends up sounding like a ramble through vaguely connected ideas rather than a structured journey.

That was a very badly structured post, a 'rambling through vaguely connected ideas' itself, mind you! Apologies. It is 3 a.m. here, I need sleep!

[Saul]

Well, again, not really my style, Saul, but I suppose it isn't a zillion miles from the kind of thing Saint-Saens or someone might have written mid 19th century, in the 'oriental' mode. Well, I think that's the kind of style you're aiming at, anyway.

MIDI sounds don't help - I'm not entirely sure what some of those instruments were meant to be! In general I'd say that, for the style I think you are aiming at, there is too much movement and busy-ness too soon after the start. The fairly static opening is quite nice, and if the piece had continued in that vein I think it would have been more successful, though that little four-note figure passsed from instrument to instrument pulls the ear away from the melody a little, I think, and again, it's a bit too busy, IMO. Anyway, you could sustain that mood much better with more restraint, letting the textures be a little less full, and letting repetition have it's full effect. It seemed like the music changed every bar or two, new ideas supplanting the old ones before they had registered in the mind, and in the end, to my ears, the piece lost focus because it didn't latch onto one main idea for long enough. I think maybe you were trying too hard to keep things interesting and to fill the texture out, I don't know. Sometimes less is more (a lesson I need to learn in my own posting habits, don't worry).

I can see why people like listening to this sort of thing Saul, don't get me wrong. Your music can sometimes sound quite pleasant and atmospheric, even when the notation is poor, but I feel that it needs much more careful shaping and a more trigger-happy delete finger getting rid of inessentials to function as well as it could. You churn out a lot of ideas, in this piece and others, but few of them really register because 1) they are not striking enough,  2) they don't stick around long enough and 3) they are often very similar to each other, so that the piece ends up sounding like a ramble through vaguely connected ideas rather than a structured journey.

That was a very badly structured post, a 'rambling through vaguely connected ideas' itself, mind you! Apologies. It is 3 a.m. here, I need sleep!

Your right in the fact that I need to learn to use the power of silence better, many times I put too much stuff in the music, too many ideas and don't give silence any chance to contribute to the structure and overall feeling of the piece, I was thinking about this for few days now, and I believe that Greg had said something to this effect too.

Very nice critic, thank you.

Good night , Luke.

[Teresa]

Yes, this is a free version for mac, with limited capabilities, its a good thing to start with. Downlaod it to to your computer and beging using this software. Eventually you will want to get the full version, and I must tell you, if you want to save for something, this is it!

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14808/finale-notepad

Thanks it's downloading as I type.

...what do you think about my Ancient Dance In G minor No.2...

http://www.youtube.com/v/jO4ES7udj8s

Hey, I like this one, it should sound excellent if it is ever played with real instruments.  I like the tone colors and use of percussion. 

[Saul]

Thanks it's downloading as I type.
Hey, I like this one, it should sound excellent if it is ever played with real instruments.  I like the tone colors and use of percussion. 

Teresa THANK YOU!

[Saul]

Here's another short Baroque piece I composed about 7 years ago.

Two Part Invention In F

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKIrlSRRIaU

[Mirror Image]

http://www.youtube.com/v/jO4ES7udj8s

The main problem aside from the lack of motivic development is that you never really get any ideas off the ground. It's as if the rhythmic aspect of your music is totally non-existent. So again, the lack of motivic development, ideas that never climax or reach any kind of resolution, and non-existent rhythmic structure.

I think one of the main things that keeps your music from growing or maturing is that you're living in the past. I'm not saying go and compose an atonal or super modern work, but I think you should definitely find ways to make the music you compose more interesting (i. e. odd time signatures, ambiguous chord voicings, strong rhythms and counterpoint, stronger melodies, etc.).

But it's your music, some people without any knowledge of classical music may enjoy you're music, but anyone who's been listening to classical should be able to detect the lack of genuine emotion and originality.

[Saul]

The main problem aside from the lack of motivic development is that you never really get any ideas off the ground. It's as if the rhythmic aspect of your music is totally non-existent. So again, the lack of motivic development, ideas that never climax or reach any kind of resolution, and non-existent rhythmic structure.

I think one of the main things that keeps your music from growing or maturing is that you're living in the past. I'm not saying go and compose an atonal or super modern work, but I think you should definitely find ways to make the music you compose more interesting (i. e. odd time signatures, ambiguous chord voicings, strong rhythms and counterpoint, stronger melodies, etc.).

But it's your music, some people without any knowledge of classical music may enjoy you're music, but anyone who's been listening to classical should be able to detect the lack of genuine emotion and originality.

I know that many people enjoy my music, if you don't and you want to only criticize and say that there is no originality and emotion because you seem to know better, then that's your choice.

But I care that people actually enjoy my music, and that's the main purpose in my music.

Don't get me wrong, there is always room for improvement, but such drastic rejection by you is very extreme and just doesn't reflect the reality of what people tell me about my music.

[Brian]

I quite like it, on it's own terms - pretty good stuff. Not really my taste, but it is doing exactly the sort of thing Brian is saying -

The modern touches are lightly and charmingly applied, discret bits of modality, simple motoric rhythms with a touch of syncopation, playful dynamic contrasts. And it works on its own terms, it doesn't ask to be heard as an attempt to recreate a style, it simply inhabits its own. I hesitate to say that this is the sort of thing I would have imagined that you might want to write, Saul.....but, actually, it is!

I should point out that Dorman wrote the piece at age 19 (in '95). The slow movement is evidently (ie I'm just guessing) a direct homage to the Ravel concerto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I60tLD-SLk. The finale is listed in the related videos, and is fairly witty actually. But clearly Saul and I have different impressions of Mr Dorman 

[Saul]

Romance In E minor


http://www.youtube.com/v/oTVLrNrjHJA

[Mirror Image]

I know that many people enjoy my music, if you don't and you want to only criticize and say that there is no originality and emotion because you seem to know better, then that's your choice.

But I care that people actually enjoy my music, and that's the main purpose in my music.

Don't get me wrong, there is always room for improvement, but such drastic rejection by you is very extreme and just doesn't reflect the reality of what people tell me about my music.

The reality is you can't take criticism and you expect superlatives to be thrown in your direction when the fact remains you haven't done the work to be awarded such compliments.

[Saul]

The reality is you can't take criticism and you expect superlatives to be thrown in your direction when the fact remains you haven't done the work to be awarded such compliments.

Actually if you read the threads, I clearly stated that I listen to criticism. You can't mess with facts, the facts are that plenty of people have listened and gave me compliments. If you can't handle it, that's pretty sad.

Please lighten up...

[Luke]

Quite an assumption, you are making, Saul, to put our names on that poll. I see you want to do this differently - for us to choose something from our existing pieces, rather than to compose something new. Well, I certainly wouldn't compose something new, for the same reason I wasn't going to compose a baroque pastiche. But I'm also not going to choose something from my existing pieces 'that best reflects the Classical Music Era' either, because I think that phrase means something different to you than it does to me.

As Karl and I pointed out in the first of these threads, what a composer living in the here-and-now does is to draw on aspects of the baroque, the classical, and so on, not imitate it. Karl gave an example of a piece of his which drew on a particular type of Baroque piece - walking, stalking bass, non-repeating ornamented melodic line - which also reflected a whole host of other musics in a very rich way. I gave an example of a piece of mine written for a baroque instrument which in some way communes with the past through a sort of intimate and much slowed-down magnification of baroque ornamentation. But neither of these were baroque pastiches.

In the same way, I could here choose from a number of pieces that draw on classical methods and ideas. But I won't, because they are not classical pastiches. To me, above al, the classical was the period of the sonata principle. There are figurations we might associate with the classical - Alberti figurations and so on - which you will hardly evert find in my music (the jost obvious exception is in my JOKE fugue on Aqua's 'I'm a Barbie Girl'    - it's number 8 of my set of mucking-around fugues, you'll find score and MIDI on my thread a couple of pages back). But the sonata principle - yes, you will find that there, all over the place: it's very important to me. Look through my thread and you'll find scores and recordings of pieces callled

Psyche Sonata (that's an old one, though)
Nightingale Sonata (this one quotes an 18th century folksong with something slightly like an Alberti bass underneath)
Canticle Sonata - the biggest, and the only one in 3 movements
Sonata in absentia (x 2 - recent pieces, these two)
Flute Sonata (the new one)
and one movement simply called Sonata

Most of these pieces were written in the last 3 years, btw. None of them could exist without the sonata principle, in a deep way they are really quite Classical pieces (maybe the Canticle Sonata above all - it's a piece where I feel I learnt to 'classicize' certain aspects of my style) but I woudln't select any of them as a piece which 'best reflects the Classical Music Era'

[Saul]

Yes, in the same vein, and as Karl did earlier, I ought to say that there is a baroque influence on my own compositions, at times, certainly, but it's not there as pastiche, it's been absorbed and used to my own ends. As, for instance, in this piece for clavichord from 2004 - the instrument itself is baroque, of course, but it's more the material of the piece, the ornaments, vastly slowed down or at 'proper' speed, fully written out and otherwise, and the way they determine the melodic structure of the piece. (The audio file, once again, is at a very low bitrate so that I can attach it; more to the point, it is EXTREMELY quiet, but then that's what clavichords are like, and the intimacy is partly why I love them so much - the microphone was hanging an inch above the strings and I've amplified it 250%, and it is still scarcely audible!)

I just don't know what you did here Luke. With all due respect, you can't really call this a serious work or even a composition.
It said abselutly nothing to me. Baroque? even Karl's piece sounded Baroque at times, but this.. i just don't know what to say...