Mahler's Symphony No. 1 D Major

Started by MichaelRabin, December 04, 2009, 07:39:36 PM

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Brewski

Quote from: Verena on May 09, 2010, 08:18:52 AM
I bet the Haitink on that box is great. Haitink has become one of my favorite conductors. Unfortunately, the box is long OOP, right?

Yes, I believe that is correct.  I do see copies now and then on eBay; if you are signed up for eBay (free) you can set up an "eBay alert" that will let you know when one comes up for sale.

But that said, look what I found, a 4-DVD set of (apparently) the same concerts.  You'll have to order in Dutch!

http://www.huisvolmuziek.nl/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=151976

--Bruce
"I set down a beautiful chord on paper—and suddenly it rusts."

- Alfred Schnittke

Twitter: @BruceHodgesNY

Verena

QuoteYes, I believe that is correct.  I do see copies now and then on eBay; if you are signed up for eBay (free) you can set up an "eBay alert" that will let you know when one comes up for sale.

But that said, look what I found, a 4-DVD set of (apparently) the same concerts.  You'll have to order in Dutch!

http://www.huisvolmuziek.nl/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=151976

--Bruce

Bruce, thanks so much! Will order these..

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Verena on May 14, 2010, 09:56:57 AM
Do you - or anyone else - happen to know his other Mahler Melodiya recordings? I've been eying the set for quite some time now. Thanks.

In this forum, I know Jens (jlaurson) owns the set, and I do. What do you want to know?

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Verena

Quote
In this forum, I know Jens (jlaurson) owns the set, and I do. What do you want to know?

Sarge
Hi Sarge,
Basically, how you'd rate the set with regard to interpretation; whether the sound is OK; and what are the highlights of the set - I guess I'd like to pick and choose rather than buy the whole thing, since it's quite expensive
Thanks

Renfield

#44
Quote from: Verena on May 14, 2010, 09:56:57 AM
Do you - or anyone else - happen to know his other Mahler Melodiya recordings? I've been eying the set for quite some time now. Thanks.

Yes, I own all of them except the 3rd. :)

Off the top of my head, the 1st is, as I said above, very exciting and excitable, even if it might lack that last ounce of poeticism; especially compared to the NDR version. The 4th I hardly remember. The 5th is strongly argued, but not quite as good as the 1st; but the 6th is, I recall, quite interesting overall, perhaps because of its more traditional form.

In fact, I'm not sure if the 6th might not be close to what Gergiev did with it, unless I'm confusing different versions.

(I'll make a mental note to listen to the Kondrashin before long and correct this, if needed.)


What is definitely close to Gergiev's in attitude, however, and the comfortable apex of the cycle, is the 7th. A very strong reading, very sinewy and propulsive, but still finding time to colour the Nachtmusik, even if not quite as sumptuously as, say, Bernstein.

With the 9th, as with the 4th, I draw a blank. But I'm very hard to satisfy there, so maybe you might want to rely on Sarge and Jens' judgement. Indeed, you might want to rely on their sound and measured judgement anyway! ;)


But all in all, I consider Kondrashin's one of the better Mahler compilations (not being a complete cycle) out there, and certainly among the most interesting series of Mahler recordings from a single conductor. Not a pressingly urgent recommendation bar the 7th, especially now that Gergiev's Mahler is around - cue Jens:  ::) - but worth hearing.


Edit: The sound is generally quite rough. The 1st and 7th are probably the best-recorded, although perhaps my estimate of them as performances colours my assessment of their sonic qualities. But it's not horrible, even in the 5th which fares less well.

Sergeant Rock

#45
Quote from: Verena on May 14, 2010, 01:48:47 PM
Hi Sarge,
Basically, how you'd rate the set with regard to interpretation; whether the sound is OK; and what are the highlights of the set - I guess I'd like to pick and choose rather than buy the whole thing, since it's quite expensive
Thanks

Dean Martin has been my inspiration this evening...I've had one too many Ballatine's on the Rocks  ;D  I'll reply more fully this weekend after I've sobered up. But I'll say for now, in general, I was disappointed by Kondrashin's Mahler. You have to understand, though, that I own more than twenty versions of each symphony, so at this point, I'm interested in interpretations, performances, that are highly individual, even "wrong."  Kondrashin didn't deliver. However, another Russian has: Svetlanov. But his cycle is even more expensive and, I think, not available as single CDs. More later.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Verena

QuoteBut all in all, I consider Kondrashin's one of the better Mahler compilations (not being a complete cycle) out there, and certainly among the most interesting series of Mahler recordings from a single conductor. Not a pressingly urgent recommendation bar the 7th, especially now that Gergiev's Mahler is around - cue Jens:  ::) - but worth hearing.

Thanks a lot, Renfield, for your advice! Actually, I've never heard any Mahler by Gergiev so far. Probably it's time to change this unacceptable situation  ::)

Verena

QuoteDean Martin has been my inspiration this evening...I've had one too many Ballatine's on the Rocks  ;D  I'll reply more fully this weekend after I've sobered up. But I'll say for now, in general, I was disappointed by Kondrashin's Mahler. You have to understand, though, that I own more than twenty versions of each symphony, so at this point, I'm interested in interpretations, performances, that are highly individual, even "wrong."  Kondrashin didn't deliver. However, another Russian has: Svetlanov. But his cycle is even more expensive and, I think, not available as single CDs. More later.

Thanks, Sarge! Indeed, now you've made me curious about the Svetlanov. If it's very expensive, I guess I have to wait till I can invest in that cycle .. :'( But then, only a couple of months to go until Christmas  ::)

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Verena on May 14, 2010, 04:35:25 PM
Thanks, Sarge! Indeed, now you've made me curious about the Svetlanov. If it's very expensive, I guess I have to wait till I can invest in that cycle .. :'( But then, only a couple of months to go until Christmas  ::)

I don't know where you live, what source is cheapest for you. Amazon.com is really expensive (around $150 if I remember correctly). JPC (Germany) is the most reasonable I've seen (if you are in Europe) at about half the Amazon price. But don't push a buy button until I've commented further  ;)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Verena

QuoteI don't know where you live, what source is cheapest for you. Amazon.com is really expensive (around $150 if I remember correctly). JPC (Germany) is the most reasonable I've seen (if you are in Europe) at about half the Amazon price. But don't push a buy button until I've commented further  ;)
Sarge

Oh indeed, the JPC is really rather cheap. That'd be my cheapest option (I live in Germany).

Renfield

Quote from: Verena on May 14, 2010, 04:31:49 PM
Thanks a lot, Renfield, for your advice! Actually, I've never heard any Mahler by Gergiev so far. Probably it's time to change this unacceptable situation  ::)

You're very welcome. Gergiev's Mahler is very divisive, both across listeners and within: there's people like our very own Jens Laurson who dismiss it, or like a lot of the British press are very muted in their occasional praise.

Whereas others, for instance at least one reviewer in the International Record Review, and indeed (without presuming to claim comparable authority) myself, think his structurally driven approach has great merit.

But even given this, I really didn't like his 1st, especially in comparison to Kondrashin. Whereas I believe Mike (knight) enjoyed it!


So, like with Kondrashin, as illustrated by the different assessment from Sarge's point of view, I'd advise sampling to see if 'interesting' translates to 'desirable' in your particular case; the 6th, 7th and 8th are arguably the strongest so far. :)

Verena

QuoteSo, like with Kondrashin, as illustrated by the different assessment from Sarge's point of view, I'd advise sampling to see if 'interesting' translates to 'desirable' in your particular case; the 6th, 7th and 8th are arguably the strongest so far. :)

Thanks! This is very helpful. I guess I'll sample the 6th in particular. I haven't quite warmed to the 7th and 8th symphonies in general; though at some stage, I'll give them another try.

kishnevi

Quote from: Renfield on May 15, 2010, 04:02:23 AM
You're very welcome. Gergiev's Mahler is very divisive, both across listeners and within: there's people like our very own Jens Laurson who dismiss it, or like a lot of the British press are very muted in their occasional praise.

Whereas others, for instance at least one reviewer in the International Record Review, and indeed (without presuming to claim comparable authority) myself, think his structurally driven approach has great merit.

But even given this, I really didn't like his 1st, especially in comparison to Kondrashin. Whereas I believe Mike (knight) enjoyed it!


So, like with Kondrashin, as illustrated by the different assessment from Sarge's point of view, I'd advise sampling to see if 'interesting' translates to 'desirable' in your particular case; the 6th, 7th and 8th are arguably the strongest so far. :)

Put me in the generally pro-Gergiev camp.  So far, the only one I don't like  is the most recent, the Fourth (the Fifth and Ninth are in the wings.  Did he do DLvdE?)  I'd say the Second and Eighth are good but not great;  the Adagio from 10 (which is packaged with the Second) is great; the Third and Sixth are excellent; the Seventh very good but not as good as others (Abbado/Berlin remains my standard here).  I like the First, because it was the first recording of that symphony that made me realize how good the First was.  Up to that point, all the recordings I had heard left me a little cold, and wondering if the fault was Mahler's.  Since then, I've come across a couple of recordings (Haitink's latest on CSO Resound, and Bernstein's first recording, for instance) that I prefer to Gergiev, but the recording remains a keeper for me. 

Perhaps this will help you if I say that Gergiev seems best in those passages of Mahler which are closest to Shostakovich.

Verena

#53
QuotePut me in the generally pro-Gergiev camp.  So far, the only one I don't like  is the most recent, the Fourth (the Fifth and Ninth are in the wings.  Did he do DLvdE?)  I'd say the Second and Eighth are good but not great;  the Adagio from 10 (which is packaged with the Second) is great; the Third and Sixth are excellent; the Seventh very good but not as good as others (Abbado/Berlin remains my standard here).  I like the First, because it was the first recording of that symphony that made me realize how good the First was.  Up to that point, all the recordings I had heard left me a little cold, and wondering if the fault was Mahler's.  Since then, I've come across a couple of recordings (Haitink's latest on CSO Resound, and Bernstein's first recording, for instance) that I prefer to Gergiev, but the recording remains a keeper for me.

Perhaps this will help you if I say that Gergiev seems best in those passages of Mahler which are closest to Shostakovich.

Very helpful review! Thanks, Kishnevi! I'm actually also looking for a great Adagio (10th symphony). So I might try Gergiev here.
Interesting that you mention the latest Haitink Mahler 1. I'm a great fan of Haitink's Mahler (and Bruckner). Do you by any chance also know other Haitink recordings of the first Mahler symphony? (I would be interested to know which recording of that symphony people prefer)

Renfield

Quote from: Verena on May 16, 2010, 12:58:40 AM
Very helpful review! Thanks, Kishnevi! I'm actually also looking for a great Adagio (10th symphony). So I might try Gergiev here.
Interesting that you mention the latest Haitink Mahler 1. I'm a great fan of Haitink's Mahler (and Bruckner). Do you by any chance also know other Haitink recordings of the first Mahler symphony? (I would be interested to know which recording of that symphony people prefer)

Re Haitink, I believe the critical consensus favours his unavailable recording with (IIRC) the BPO, in the 1st. I've not heard any of his recordings of the piece, but am familiar with his first Concertgebouw 3rd, and his recent Chicago 6th, and like both.

(I've also heard his Chicago 3rd, which was sonically quite impressive, but lost my interest after a second listen.)


kishnevi,

I actually haven't bought that 4th yet. I think hearing Zinman and the Zurich Tonhalle deliver a pretty shatteringly grim performance of the piece in last year's Edinburgh International Festival has coloured my view of the symphony a little too much to return to (possibly) more strident readings, for the time being... Though I am looking forward to his 5th; especially given what Barshai did with it.

Regarding the 1st, though, I had the impression of an unduly helter-skelter reading from Gergiev. Like you say, Bernstein's late recording is better, as are others of a more restrained ilk. Not to mention Kondrashin's, if one wants drive.

But that said, I might revisit it, and see if my opinion remains the same.


Interesting, though, your comment on Mahler-through-Shostakovich. I suppose Gergiev's 7th, and a 'traditionally Russian' Shostakovich 5th might not be all that far apart, in conception... Maybe also the 3rd (that I did like, from Gergiev), and the Shost. 7th.

Verena

QuoteRe Haitink, I believe the critical consensus favours his unavailable recording with (IIRC) the BPO, in the 1st. I've not heard any of his recordings of the piece, but am familiar with his first Concertgebouw 3rd, and his recent Chicago 6th, and like both.

(I've also heard his Chicago 3rd, which was sonically quite impressive, but lost my interest after a second listen.)

Thanks! I think the recording you are referring to is available, at least as a download:
http://www.qobuz.com/telechargement-album-mp3/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos.1-2-/Classique/Philharmonique-de-Berlin/Philips/default/fiche_produit/id_produit-0002894756222.html



Renfield

Quote from: papy on May 16, 2010, 05:36:52 AM
A bit cheaper on Amazon UK as a download, Renfield :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-1-2/dp/B001N202V6/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk?ie=UTF8&qid=1274016921&sr=8-37

Cheers; I'll keep it in mind. Sadly, I can't quite afford an expansion of my collection into the bought digital realm, at the moment!

suzyq

Can you recommend a cd of Mahler's Symphony No. 1 D Major - I've just seen a DVD Gustavo Dudamel was the conductor at the opening of the new hall in Los Angeles.

Thanks for any suggestions. :)