On that Lewd, Pulsating Jungle Music

[karlhenning]

My surprise is not because of Hanson's reputation as a composer--he was an unabashed neo-Romantic and said so--but rather, his reputation as a forward-looking conductor and educator.  Didn't he, at the Eastman School, encourage free exploration of musical modernity?

Hence my surprise, as well.

[starrynight]

I don't think Hanson is that good a composer either.  Not sure why he got the fame he did, maybe it helped him being American so some recording labels and orchestras supported his music?

[Franco]

De gustibus non disputandum est, but I respectfully disagree based on my own listening to Hanson's music.  Even in the 20th century, a composer doesn't have to be forward-looking to be great.

Maybe I inadvertantly damned him with faint praise, I actually consider Howard Hanson a good composer and enjoy his music, I just don't put him in the same weight class as Stravinsky, Bartok or Shostakovich.

[karlhenning]

TTT

De gustibus non disputandum est, but I respectfully disagree based on my own listening to Hanson's music.  Even in the 20th century, a composer doesn't have to be forward-looking to be great.

Point well taken.

Though I think the case for Hanson being a great composer remains to be made ; )

[Brian]

I was going to post a sound file of a composer who was traditionally associated with very old-fashioned music who wrote a surprising jazz piece. But I can't. The file is in iTunes format, the program which converts that to mp3 refuses to open the file, the program (Audacity) which is supposed to record things won't record it, and at any rate I can't upload it to anywhere on the internet that would enable me to just stick it in here as a big green play button. So everybody do yourselves a favor, go to Naxos Music Library, and listen to Dvorak's Humoresque for Piano No 4 "Poco Andante."

[bwv 1080]

how bout this one?

( I doubt it will come up in google )


Never had an affection for Jazz ...  Jazz is a robber whose "innovations" are, really, borrowing from previous symphonic music

[Klaatu]

The English composer Cyril Scott was also an occultist and early champion of alternative medicine, writing several books on the latter and an influential (in its time) volume about the spiritual nature of music. I do remember him lambasting "this jazz-music" quite vehemently.

So he's my best guess for the author of your quotation.

[bwv 1080]

The English composer Cyril Scott was also an occultist and early champion of alternative medicine, writing several books on the latter and an influential (in its time) volume about the spiritual nature of music. I do remember him lambasting "this jazz-music" quite vehemently.

So he's my best guess for the author of your quotation.

no, the person who said this was a great composer

[snyprrr]

Why all the rancor?

The world IS a worse place since free jazz was allowed unabated. It, no doubt, is responsible for Kenny G.

And, what is free jazz's legacy?

I'm sure someone can find an example from the '60s-'70s where you can't tell if it's a 'classical' artist, or free jazz.

And, since just blowing noise into a horn became popular, I defy you to tell the dif between jazz and any free interpretation of Cage.

Why can't free jazz just suck? Why must it be defended? Who here would trade Stockhausen for Cecil Taylor?



I'll admit, defending Hanson is as hard as defending Sanchez!

[Josquin des Prez]

A lot of this sentiment was in the air, no doubt; yet I am astonished to read it from . . . well, the person who wrote it.[/font]

What was he thinking, though? "If [it] continues to develop unabated"?  "If [it] is not curtailed"?

I'm not sure he was entirely wrong. Sure Jazz developed to become a great art form, but two things happened because of it:

1) European music was dislodged entirely and thrown into the dustbin of history

2) It spawned popular music which in itself became the musical opium of the masses, while art music, which was at one point well respected and know by many, became the vocation of an handful of nerdy social outcasts who according to recent statistic constitutes about 0.1% percent of the entire record market.

[karlhenning]

Why can't free jazz just suck?

Someone who cannot tell the difference between the good and the bad in the genre, is asking?

Why can't string quartets just suck?

[CD]

I wouldn't want to hear any poster here, even one whose musical acumen far exceeds mine, try to explain how hip-hop and contemporary R&B are inferior genres (even though I don't care for either), because any statements are invariably outside of the speaker's area of expertise and invariably will sound stupid to anyone who hasn't drank the so-called Kool-Aid. The statements of composers, even well-respected composers, denigrating jazz or any other popular music have no more truth value than a country musician objectively explaining why classical music is boring.

[karlhenning]

I wouldn't want to hear any poster here, even one whose musical acumen far exceeds mine, try to explain how hip-hop and contemporary R&B are inferior genres (even though I don't care for either), because any statements are invariably outside of the speaker's area of expertise and invariably will sound stupid to anyone who hasn't drank the so-called Kool-Aid. The statements of composers, even well-respected composers, denigrating jazz or any other popular music have no more truth value than a country musician objectively explaining why classical music is boring.

QFT

[bwv 1080]

Who here would trade Stockhausen for Cecil Taylor?

maybe not Cecil Taylor, but definitely for late Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, or Albert Ayler

[DavidRoss]

I wouldn't want to hear any poster here, even one whose musical acumen far exceeds mine, try to explain how hip-hop and contemporary R&B are inferior genres (even though I don't care for either), because any statements are invariably outside of the speaker's area of expertise and invariably will sound stupid to anyone who hasn't drank the so-called Kool-Aid. The statements of composers, even well-respected composers, denigrating jazz or any other popular music have no more truth value than a country musician objectively explaining why classical music is boring.

Comparing hip-hop or R&B with opus 132 or DLVDE is like comparing a down jacket with a wet suit.

[CD]

Which is why one shouldn't do it.

[DavidRoss]

Who here would trade Stockhausen for Cecil Taylor?

I would, and did.

free jazz ... is responsible for Kenny G.

Do you ever think before you type?  This is like claiming James Joyce is responsible for your posts.

[karlhenning]

!!!

[CD]

No popular music, no folk, no Jazz of any-sort has ever equaled any piece of Monteverdi's, of Bach's, of Mozart's, of Beethoven's (et alii) for sheer complexity (the huge minds required to grasp that), for depth of sentiment, for spiritual elevation. That is why the Classical is essentially for the elite, and the popular is for the rest of the pack

I'm not arguing for the supremacy of either (we've had that thread countless times), nor am I trying for cultural relativism — I'm simply saying that people should stick with what they know and where their interest lies.

[bwv 1080]

as well as by a simple-mindedness that constantly threatens to drag it down to the same level as redneck music

what's wrong with redneck music?