Sergei Rachmaninov (1873-1943)

Started by Chaszz, December 10, 2009, 04:35:52 PM

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kyjo

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2022, 06:45:11 AM
Indeed. This member flip-flops opinions faster than Donald Trump.

:laugh:

Here's my opinion about the Symphonic Dances: it's a flaming masterpiece and I couldn't care less what title Rachmaninoff gave it. :)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Mirror Image

Quote from: kyjo on May 15, 2022, 11:37:29 AM
:laugh:

Here's my opinion about the Symphonic Dances: it's a flaming masterpiece and I couldn't care less what title Rachmaninoff gave it. :)

+1

Florestan

Quote from: George on May 16, 2022, 11:08:26 AM
Don't you mean Rachmaninov?  >:D

The dispute has been settled long time ago by the composer himelf.

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on May 16, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
The dispute has been settled long time ago by the composer himelf.



Indeed, but I find it very hard to agree with him for various reasons...
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Florestan on May 16, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
The dispute has been settled long time ago by the composer himelf.



I still say Rachmaninov and I'll continue to do so. Sorry, not sorry. :)

Lisztianwagner

Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances has some aspects in common with his Third Symphony; they have a similar structure in threefold form in the movements, great importance of the energetic rhythmic dynamism (more than in the other symphonies), changing harmonies and brilliant virtuosity of the orchestral sections; both also use melodies of Dies Irae in the final movements and the reminiscences of Russian traditional music are clearly perceived.
I agree it's not hard to consider the Symphonic Dances as a symphony, but as it has been already said, the intentions of the composer seemed to be different from a symphony: even before playing it for Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, he gave the choreographer Michel Fokine a hearing and they discussed about the chance to make it a ballet (Fokine wrote: "If the joy of creating dances to your music is again given to me, I should not at all feel the need for this rhythmic support [he talked about the waltz element]. I'm not able to speak of music, and even less to write of it, but I am now writing because it seems to me that you are binding yourself to dance requirements."); also, in an interview, Rachmaninov said:" It should have been called just Dances, but I was afraid people would think I had written dance music for jazz orchestra" (but I don't know if he was actually joking about that). So maybe did he change the title to better specify its instrumentation and its musical genre?
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

SonicMan46

Now on Rachmaninov(ff) in my collection and starting w/ the Symphonies - post below just left in the 'listening thread' - have and enjoy the Ashkenazy 3-CD set w/ a lot of other works - looking on Amazon USA, André Previn and Valery Gergiev seem to be others in the competition for 'complete' compilations - just curious about the favorites here?  I went back about 8 pages in this thread and not much discussion, so curious.  Thanks.  Dave :)

QuoteRachmaninov, Sergei (1873-1943) - Symphonies etal & Vespers - just have the single set of Ashkenazy doing the symphonies and other works w/ the Concertgebouw Orch; also have 3 versions of the Vespers, the one below is a favorite.  Dave :)

 

Florestan

Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 24, 2022, 08:27:12 AM
Now on Rachmaninov(ff) in my collection and starting w/ the Symphonies - post below just left in the 'listening thread' - have and enjoy the Ashkenazy 3-CD set w/ a lot of other works - looking on Amazon USA, André Previn and Valery Gergiev seem to be others in the competition for 'complete' compilations

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Roasted Swan

Litton is excellent.  Petrenko gets a lot of love (which I don't actually share much).  If you don't mind downloads there is an interesting very cheap option here;

https://www.classicselectworld.com/collections/digital-downloads/products/rachmaninov-complete-orchestral-works



for 99p(!)

mainly Kogan but some Svetlanov........

SonicMan46

Quote from: Florestan on May 24, 2022, 08:32:16 AM


Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 24, 2022, 12:58:42 PM
Litton is excellent.  Petrenko gets a lot of love (which I don't actually share much).  If you don't mind downloads there is an interesting very cheap option here;  for 99p - mainly Kogan but some Svetlanov........

https://www.classicselectworld.com/collections/digital-downloads/products/rachmaninov-complete-orchestral-works



Thanks Andrei & RS for your comments - after listening to my Ashkenazy this morning, I enjoyed and realize why it's in my collection so will remain - thus, do I want to add another, not sure?  The Litton, Gergiev, and Previn (from the 70s) pique my interest - but might just decide to spend my money on other Rach works? Although 99 cents is certainly enticing, I do few DLs these days (replaced my printer that could put labels directly on the writable CD-Rs which I always make from DLs and hate to use the paper labels, i.e. get stuck in my CD player!).  Will be anxious to see if anyone comes forward w/ a Previn 'thumbs up'?  The set is cheap on Amazon -  8)  Thanks again for your thoughts.  Dave :)

Roasted Swan

Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
Thanks Andrei & RS for your comments - after listening to my Ashkenazy this morning, I enjoyed and realize why it's in my collection so will remain - thus, do I want to add another, not sure?  The Litton, Gergiev, and Previn (from the 70s) pique my interest - but might just decide to spend my money on other Rach works? Although 99 cents is certainly enticing, I do few DLs these days (replaced my printer that could put labels directly on the writable CD-Rs which I always make from DLs and hate to use the paper labels, i.e. get stuck in my CD player!).  Will be anxious to see if anyone comes forward w/ a Previn 'thumbs up'?  The set is cheap on Amazon -  8)  Thanks again for your thoughts.  Dave :)

Previn 2&3 are good - No.1 is a major (surprising) disappointment.  Good Dances & Isle of the Dead.  If its cheap worth a punt.  At the end of the day Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw ticks pretty much all the boxes re performances and sonics.  His Exton remake in Australia is not NEARLY as good - just bland even though more works are offered.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 24, 2022, 02:13:41 PM
Previn 2&3 are good - No.1 is a major (surprising) disappointment.  Good Dances & Isle of the Dead.  If its cheap worth a punt.  At the end of the day Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw ticks pretty much all the boxes re performances and sonics.  His Exton remake in Australia is not NEARLY as good - just bland even though more works are offered.

Thanks RS - maybe Ashkenazy is enough for me for these works - appreciate you input - thanks again.  Dave :)

Mirror Image

Count me as a fan of the Ashkenazy/Previn PC cycle. It's probably my reference set for these works. I recently bought a deluxe edition of this cycle and the remastering is top-notch.


Madiel

It's rare to find sets as consistently praised as Ashkenazy for the symphonies and Ashkenazy/Previn for the piano concertos. That's why I didn't much bother looking elsewhere, although there are some smaller/early orchestral works you don't get as a result.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Jo498

I am not sufficiently interested to compare (a few weeks ago I listened to the 2nd symphony and earlier also to some concertos, probably the somewhat lesser known 1+4 and was reminded why I listen to this about once a year or every other year...) but I got the Ashkenazy/Haitink in favor of the older one because I apparently overall found a lot of comments favoring it.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 24, 2022, 02:13:41 PM
Previn 2&3 are good - No.1 is a major (surprising) disappointment. 

Agreed. After listening to Previn's First I felt that Cui's infamous criticism was entirely justified.

For a very good 1st in SOTA sound, I recommend this:



As for Litton, the best Rachmaninoff I heard from him is this:



A lush, sensuous, hyper-Romantic, crackerjack reading.

On the whole, though, if one must have one and only one complete and consistently good set of symphonies, Ashkenazy is the man. Valid also for the PCs, although I would equally recommend the Earl Wild/Jascha Horenstein set.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Florestan on May 25, 2022, 03:46:19 AM
Agreed. After listening to Previn's First I felt that Cui's infamous criticism was entirely justified.

For a very good 1st in SOTA sound, I recommend this:



As for Litton, the best Rachmaninoff I heard from him is this:



A lush, sensuous, hyper-Romantic, crackerjack reading.

On the whole, though, if one must have one and only one complete and consistently good set of symphonies, Ashkenazy is the man. Valid also for the PCs, although I would equally recommend the Earl Wild/Jascha Horenstein set.

BIG vote for Wild/Horenstein!

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Madiel on May 24, 2022, 09:23:25 PM
It's rare to find sets as consistently praised as Ashkenazy for the symphonies and Ashkenazy/Previn for the piano concertos. That's why I didn't much bother looking elsewhere, although there are some smaller/early orchestral works you don't get as a result.

Agreed, I quote it; for the piano concertos and the Rhapsody ona Theme of Paganini also the Ashkenazy/Haitink recordings are greatly worth remembering.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

SonicMan46

Piano Concertos yesterday - own two somewhat older and maybe obscure sets of these works: 1) Earl Wild (1915-2010) - recorded in 1965! But remastered by Chandos (w/ rather silly cover art) - this is a favorite; listened on headphones, just no tape hiss - wonderful performances - please see the attached reviews which should convince some to purchase this 2-CD set; and 2) Victor Eresko (1942-Present) - recorded in 1983-84 - another fantastic performance (but cannot find much in the way of reviews, sorry) - Dave :)