Anna Netrebko had a baby - voice change

[Ciel_Rouge]

I recently heard on the radio that Anna Netrebko had a baby and her voice changed. I suppose there are no recordings with her new voice yet. Has anyone had the chance to hear it? I don't know if it is a positive change or not - they just said it is softer and darker now (it had been already rather dark and mature so I am not sure how that would work).

According to Wiki:

"Netrebko was scheduled to perform the role of Lucia in Lucia di Lammermoor in October 2008 at the Metropolitan Opera, but due to her pregnancy she decided to drop out of the role.

In her first performance after her maternity leave, Netrebko sang the title role in Lucia di Lammermoor when it opened at the Mariinsky Theatre in Saint Petersburg on 14 January 2009, in a production from the Scottish Opera led by John Doyle.[13] She then sang the same role in January and February 2009 at the Metropolitan Opera. Netrebko appeared as Giulietta in I Capuleti e i Montecchi at the Royal Opera House in Spring 2009, and as Violetta in La Traviata in June 2009 at the San Francisco Opera."

[Scarpia]

Unless she had one of those rare oral deliveries, I fail to see why having a baby would cause her voice to change.   

[Marc]

Unless she had one of those rare oral deliveries, I fail to see why having a baby would cause her voice to change.   

Nope. This happens quite a lot, you know.
Paul McCartney had the same, around 1966.
Some people even believed he had died and was replaced by a look-alike (though not entirely sing-alike).

Apart from that science fiction story: it's got something to do with the hormons. Let's just hope she didn't turn into a baritone, with moustache.

[The new erato]

Nope. This happens quite a lot, you know.
Paul McCartney had the same, around 1966.
Some people even believed he had died and was replaced by a look-alike (though not entirely sing-alike).

Paul had a baby? No wonder they had to replace him.

[Marc]

Paul had a baby? No wonder they had to replace him.

Oh yes.
You didn't know?
He really was in love with John Lennon, you know.
And his girl was Jane Asher (a beauty, btw), who was an actress. And it's a commonly known fact that all actresses are lesbians. So, when the Beatles decided to replace Paula for Paul AKA William Campbell, Jane decided to leave him.

[Ciel_Rouge]

Gentlemen, you are making fun of something which is a commonly known fact among opera singers and opera admirers. After each baby the voice of a female soprano changes. It may look like some kind of a nutjob story but it sadly is not. And I said sadly, because I have now found samples on YT to compare. After giving birth in late 2008 Anna performed Lucia di Lammermoor in early January 2009.

This is "Regnava nel silenzio from her role in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46BeL7XL8Ks


And this is her singing the same aria in 2003:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8g2aGnvtk

[Marc]

Gentlemen, you are making fun of something which is a commonly known fact among opera singers and opera admirers.

I hear you.
Apart from the making fun, I also wrote: it's got something to do with the hormons.
I have to admit that this is all I know. But yes: these things happen. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

I also know that the voice of Maria Callas changed after she slimmed down dramatically after 1952/1953. Opera lovers who heard her as a plumper were rather sad about that change, because her voice had gotten sharper and less creamy. I know there is a (not so good sound quality) recording of a live Macbeth from 1952, with Callas as a plumper (excuses for the rather harsh word, I have nothing against chubby ladies btw). For those who are interested: check it out.



http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Macbeth-complete-Mascherini-Orchestra/dp/B00000630X

[knight66]

This is "Regnava nel silenzio from her role in 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46BeL7XL8Ks


And this is her singing the same aria in 2003:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8g2aGnvtk

There does seem to be a deterioration in several respects. I am not clear though that it is due to child birth. I don't think the part was ever really suitable for her. On YouTube Gheorghiu makes a good job of it, but Anna Moffo is superb. I will not stress Callas in the part, as she is pretty much in a class of her own.

I have heard Anna Netrebko as Guilda in Rigoletto. Although she got  round the notes, the role did not seem to fit her voice, which I thought was too dark and not truly flexible. In that newer performance she clearly has pitch problems.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Gentlemen, you are making fun of something which is a commonly known fact among opera singers and opera admirers. After each baby the voice of a female soprano changes.

That's strange, as my voice got higher, not lower, after 3 kids.
(Over time though, I just found better teachers. The voice, i.e. vocal chords, did not change at all.)
ZB

[zamyrabyrd]

I hear you.
Apart from the making fun, I also wrote: it's got something to do with the hormons.
I have to admit that this is all I know. But yes: these things happen. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

I also know that the voice of Maria Callas changed after she slimmed down dramatically after 1952/1953. Opera lovers who heard her as a plumper were rather sad about that change, because her voice had gotten sharper and less creamy. I know there is a (not so good sound quality) recording of a live Macbeth from 1952, with Callas as a plumper (excuses for the rather harsh word, I have nothing against chubby ladies btw). For those who are interested: check it out.

[

There have been so many batty theories about the change in Callas' voice that I have heard over the years. (I should leave this subject to Tsaras who is extremely well informed about her.) The loss of fat is one of the weirder ones. Correlation doesn't mean causation. Can one actually hear Natalie Dessay? Get my point?

Rosa Ponselle once said that to keep one's voice is to sing on the interest, not on the principal. Belting out notes above the staff is vocal peril, if not suicide.

Callas did admit in her Barbara Walters interview that once she was out of the loop, that is, without performing on a regular basis, the automatic reflexes disintegrate, and with that the all important confidence to sustain it.

ZB

[Marc]

[....]Correlation doesn't mean causation. [....]

True.
My wrong.
I'd better written I also know read that the voice of Maria Callas changed after she slimmed down .... et cetera.

[Ciel_Rouge]

Let's not drift away towards Callas conspiracy theories, shall we?Most of all, let us give some thoughts to what happened to Anna Netrebko, one of my favourite sopranos. I guess this is also a great thread to explain factors affecting the human voice and I am really looking forward to that too.

There does seem to be a deterioration in several respects. I am not clear though that it is due to child birth. I don't think the part was ever really suitable for her. [cut] In that newer performance she clearly has pitch problems.

Mike

Thanks Mike, this is what I am trying to determine here. Let's just A-B the two clips and please tell me what you think. As this is the same aria ("Regnava nel silenzio") and the same words are being sung, the comparison should be easy:

BEFORE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-8g2aGnvtk

AFTER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46BeL7XL8Ks

[zamyrabyrd]

Let's not drift away towards Callas conspiracy theories, shall we? Most of all, let us give some thoughts to what happened to Anna Netrebko, one of my favourite sopranos. I guess this is also a great thread to explain factors affecting the human voice and I am really looking forward to that too.

Let's just A-B the two clips and please tell me what you think. As this is the same aria ("Regnava nel silenzio") and the same words are being sung, the comparison should be easy.

Overall, I preferred the second, B, as the acting environment brought out more of the expression of the aria, whereas the first, A, was a bit stiff.

But as was mentioned, I don't think this is a good choice for her. What bothered me in A, that she did less of in B, was the excessive amount of covering (I believe this is "Russian" technique) in the lower upper range, d-e-f-g and then letting go for the a's, b's and the (only) crowning d in alt that most sopranos give you more than a taste of in the coloratura repeat.

Again, I don't think a baby is responsible. (I never said anything about a Callas
conspiracy and there is something to be learned by comparing other voices.)

ZB

[Ciel_Rouge]

A baby cannot be responsible for anything because it does not make any decisions However, parents do. I spent last night listening to Souvenirs and it sort of came to me that perhaps this is why she titled the album the way she did  Anyways, I refrained from giving you my personal views to avoid bias but now that some opinions have already been given, to my ears she became less "stinging" and darker but the darkness seems to be overwhelming and the voice seems a bit "weak", without the impetus and energy that I enjoyed on Souvenirs. That might be compensated by change of repertoire but I am not sure - this is why I am still asking all forum members to A-B it a little bit and give your own opinions.

[jochanaan]

That's strange, as my voice got higher, not lower, after 3 kids.
(Over time though, I just found better teachers. The voice, i.e. vocal chords, did not change at all.)
ZB

Interesting.  I can also imagine that the abdominal-muscular workout of birth itself makes some changes; was that so for you?  And of course the voice changes naturally over time even if a singer does everything right.

[zamyrabyrd]

Interesting.  I can also imagine that the abdominal-muscular workout of birth itself makes some changes; was that so for you?  And of course the voice changes naturally over time even if a singer does everything right.

I suppose physical changes affect the voices of men or women, in different ways.  Back in 1984 I could not sing at all for 6 weeks after a C section. It was weird and frustrating, I would try out a melody but it came out a half tone flat. 

I don't think my voice changed essentially from adolescence, although I went through teachers who told me conflicting theories from alto to dramatic coloratura, mixed in with a lot of disparaging stuff as well. The nice part about voice development is the chance to become more yourself.

So in spite of almost never ending discouragement along the way (play piano instead! why do you want to learn singing? ugh!), I think I managed to accept who I am in terms of my voice (lyric soprano) and use it as a tool for self-discovery.  This puts the lie to "if you are not going to have an operatic career why bother?"

ZB

[Ciel_Rouge]

I think first hand examples from mothers are the best here.

In the mean time on the Netrebko sub-thread in this thread I sampled ALL her albums on Amazon and discovered that on every disk there is at least one aria that I like. I especially found this album to be very appealing:

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Album-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B000FIGXGC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1262109854&sr=8-13

Featuring this aria that I like a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taOTV2UgYY0

[Sarastro]

Anna Netrebko has been and will continue being a mediocre singer, immensely promoted and overrated by the media with the sole goal to make good money.

[Ciel_Rouge]

Seems to me like a very general statement not backed by specific examples, solely based on the fact that she also appeared in adverts and non-operatic settings - just like Pavarotti Please be so kind as to tell me which of her performances were not to your liking and which opera singers you prefer.

[Sarastro]

Please be so kind as to tell me which of her performances were not to your liking and which opera singers you prefer.

We discussed it many times before this thread was even started, and frankly, I am too tired to go over it for one time, let's just leave it where it is. You like Netrebko, that's fine. I honestly don't care. I heard her live once, and it was enough for me to comprehend her mediocrity as a singer.