Classical composer that where not heterosexual or gay (asexual nerds)

[Carlo Gesualdo]

Ok you wont believe me, if I told you this, I have this friend he like a robot, thus said he don't care or think of sex  like woman or man, he like his play station and that it, I swear to god, he like Data in star trek, he like a robot inside...

Is this rare, what if you're not attracted to woman neither man, you fit in what category= asexual & nerdy, you guys know people like this?

He like a super computer he analyse stuff than answer...

Is it mental or normal or bizzare in a way?

He just too nerdy, to be interested in sex I just don't know, he could be a Mensa menbers easily, very very smart dude and funny... what an odd fellows?

Any composer in history were exactly like this, they  just did not have the urge for sex , or don't care , no liking for  opposite  sex or same sex, just not sexual at all...

Did any composer in history was like this, is it a form of autism? or something?

He only care for grunge and play station and that about it, it his life , can someone explain what you think or made of this?

[Jo498]

I don't know if they exhibited features like your friend but there actually are some candidates: Handel, Bruckner, Ravel all seem to have been somewhat asexual in their behavior. There are probably many more. Sure, many composing priests and monks often were de facto not celibate at all but others probably were and while this does not imply a-sexuality, it sometimes does.

[Florestan]

I don't know if they exhibited features like your friend but there actually are some candidates: Handel, Bruckner, Ravel all seem to have been somewhat asexual in their behavior. There are probably many more. Sure, many composing priests and monks often were de facto not celibate at all but others probably were and while this does not imply a-sexuality, it sometimes does.

Handel and Ravel, yes. Bruckner, though, was notorious for proposing marriage to teenage girls all through his life, on the ground that he be sure of marrying a virgin. This imply at least a theoretical interest in a heterosexual relationship.

[Jo498]

I was aware of this theoretical interest, but it might have been and remained very theoretical and maybe Bruckner thought that it would have been the proper thing to do as he was not a monk.
Generally, I am not a fan of scrutinizing the intimate lives of famous people of the past and even less of putting them on Freud's couch. But there are some people who were either incredibly discreet in their habits or in fact rather asexual. In the case of Handel it seems quite unlikely that the gossipy and sarcastic London public who enjoyed his depiction as a gourmand with a pig snout would not have jumped onto mistresses, affairs or "unnatural proclivities". 

[MusicTurner]

I don't think you have artists, where any obvious nerdiness isn't seen by at least some analysts, as a sign of suppressed homo- or hetero-sexuality etc.
There's no 100% consensus, not to say verifiable proofs, in such matters of psychology, unless perhaps the behaviour (such as diagnosed autism), is really extreme.

Sometimes new source materials come up, regarding artists private lives, that change what we know about them. A quite recent book by Robert Craft disclosed Stravinsky as a homosexual. But as far as I know, Ravel is often seen as a person with very nerdy traits, though interpretations also vary as regards him.

We live in an often sexualized cultural environment, but honestly, I am more interested in the content and details of their intellectual merits and interests, than dissecting, condensating  and labelling their inner life into just a question of any simplified and individualized sexuality.

Of course, retreating from the world generally, including those often demanding emotional relations, can be a way of protecting oneself, and it can even be felt as a haven for one' s work.

[some guy]

This thread called up into the front of my mind a word I haven't used or even seen in quite a long time.

Crucible.

Whatever else artists do with their materials, transformation is paramount. However important personal things, like sex and religion and food, are to the, um, persons, if those things make any sort of contribution to the works of art these persons create, those materials have gone through extreme transformation. Even if they were to remain recognizable, their importance is forever and always transumed to serve the purposes of the work.

Not that details of an artist's personal life do not affect the products of an artist's works (though how you could tell is pretty questionable--we don't have multiple iterations of each artist with different personal details and hence the possibility of different works), but the point of art can hardly be simply a sort of parlor game of guessing how homo- or hetero- or a-sexuality contributes to any given composers' works. What we do have, in this regard, are similarities of sound and aesthetic between contemporaries or near contemporaries. And I cannot at the moment think of any pairings of people--say, Bruckner and Mahler or Ravel and Poulenc--that demonstrate anything except that sexuality doesn't seem to affect the sound at all. Something much more nebulous, seemingly nebulous, like Zeitgeist seems to have a much stronger affect on what any work at any given time will sound like.

[amw]

There have always been rumours Ravel was gay but I don't know that they have ever been substantiated.

First name that came to my mind was Nikolay Myaskovsky, who wrote 27 symphonies and 13 string quartets etc while living with his sisters for his entire life. Never expressed the slightest interest in marrying any woman, nor in taking a male lover during the brief period in Soviet history when that was legal and socially acceptable, and I don't believe there have ever been even the slightest amount of rumours. He was married to his music, more or less.

Being a composer is a full-time job, often a demanding one, and until quite recently the idea of someone being "married to their job" and therefore not necessarily seeking to have a relationship with another person, was quite normal and not uncommon. It's only recently that it seems we have stigmatised such people as virgins, incels, asexuals, prudes etc, and put significant effort into trying to find out the "true sexuality" of historical figures who never married or pursued long term relationships by attempting to deduce from circumstantial evidence their one night stands or brothel visits etc. Our era is weirdly obsessed with sex in I think a fairly unhealthy way.

I don't think there is anything wrong with paying attention to the composers who made heterosexuality or homosexuality an important part of their work but trying to find asexuality in a piece of music is a futile exercise. (Some critics tried to do this—mostly in order to assert that music without sexuality was worthless—of course the example I remember was a critic panning Stravinsky as too hopelessly asexual to write good music, the man now famous for his affairs with the likes of Coco Chanel)

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Claims about the sexual orientation of poorly documented long-dead persons are intrinsically suspect, because (using the concept of sexual orientation that exists today) they are claims about how somebody felt. We can't even be sure about the feelings of people we know in real life.

Handel and Ravel, yes. Bruckner, though, was notorious for proposing marriage to teenage girls all through his life, on the ground that he be sure of marrying a virgin. This imply at least a theoretical interest in a heterosexual relationship.

Yeah, except Bruckner didn't do this "all through his life" but I think started doing so when he was middle-aged. He also had no social skills (was once fired from a job for flirting with a female student), which only added to his problems.

Sometimes new source materials come up, regarding artists private lives, that change what we know about them. A quite recent book by Robert Craft disclosed Stravinsky as a homosexual.

I think this was not a book but a claim Craft made shortly before he died and apparently not backed up with evidence. The Stravinsky we know was quite a womanizer.

[MusicTurner]

(...)

I think this was not a book but a claim Craft made shortly before he died and apparently not backed up with evidence. The Stravinsky we know was quite a womanizer.

"In a chapter in "Discoveries," Craft writes, "Ravel and Stravinsky were, of all artists, the most successful in concealing their sexuality. The two were time-to-time lovers...." He further states that Stravinsky had affairs with composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's eldest son, Andrey, and with the Belgian composer Maurice Delage. (...)"

-> https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-xpm-2013-jul-18-la-et-cm-stravinksy-craft-20130721-story.html

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

"In a chapter in "Discoveries," Craft writes, "Ravel and Stravinsky were, of all artists, the most successful in concealing their sexuality. The two were time-to-time lovers...." He further states that Stravinsky had affairs with composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's eldest son, Andrey, and with the Belgian composer Maurice Delage. (...)"

-> https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-xpm-2013-jul-18-la-et-cm-stravinksy-craft-20130721-story.html

On balance, that article comes down against Craft's claims. It also seems that Craft misinterprets cultural and linguistic habits of other times and places (i.e. "presentism"):

"Russians habitually sign off with 'obnimayu,' meaning 'I embrace [you],' Walsh added. "And of course the French, too, were always embracing and kissing at the end of their letters, and no doubt in person as well, without necessarily jumping into bed with every correspondent."

Just like, when an 18th-century gentleman writes in his diary "my intercourse with Mr. Jones was most delightful," he's probably not talking about sex.

[MusicTurner]

On balance, that article comes down against Craft's claims. It also seems that Craft misinterprets cultural and linguistic habits of other times and places (i.e. "presentism"):

"Russians habitually sign off with 'obnimayu,' meaning 'I embrace [you],' Walsh added. "And of course the French, too, were always embracing and kissing at the end of their letters, and no doubt in person as well, without necessarily jumping into bed with every correspondent."

Just like, when an 18th-century gentleman writes in his diary "my intercourse with Mr. Jones was most delightful," he's probably not talking about sex.

I agree that Craft's claims or evidence in the texts are not conclusive.

[pjme]

"In a chapter in "Discoveries," Craft writes, "Ravel and Stravinsky were, of all artists, the most successful in concealing their sexuality. The two were time-to-time lovers...." He further states that Stravinsky had affairs with composer Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's eldest son, Andrey, and with the Belgian composer Maurice Delage. (...)"

-> https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-xpm-2013-jul-18-la-et-cm-stravinksy-craft-20130721-story.html

Maurice Delage was a French composer, of course.  He is known for the delightful "Quatre poèmes hindous. 

"Maurice atteint ses 43 ans lorsqu'il rencontre Nelly Guérin-Desjardins. Le couple se marie le 30 janvier 1922 à Paris."
http://www.ars-classical.com/delage-biographie.html
Delage met Ravel in 1902 and was a close friend , but little seems to suggest that they had an affair.

For the rest  "... honestly, I am more interested in the content and details of their intellectual merits and interests, than dissecting, condensating  and labeling their inner life into just a question of any simplified and individualized sexuality.

And, explained in simple words : https://www.uis.edu/gendersexualitystudentservices/students/a-guide-to-asexuality/

[vandermolen]

I seem to recall that Bruckner would like to have got married and made an ill-fated proposal. I also read somewhere that Miaskovsky may have suffered some childhood trauma that may have affected his whole outlook on life. Having said that I'm not sure that these speculations take us very far. I'm sure that Miaskovsky was happy living with his sisters.

[pjme]

http://www.muerysalzmann.at/shop/shop_artikeldetails.asp?str=buchmayr&sf=1&agnr=287

Could be helpful!

The author is librarian at the Stiftsbibliothek St. Florian. For the moment, only in German I suppose.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

http://www.muerysalzmann.at/shop/shop_artikeldetails.asp?str=buchmayr&sf=1&agnr=287

Could be helpful!

The author is librarian at the Stiftsbibliothek St. Florian. For the moment, only in German I suppose.

This reminds me. Ages ago, I was in a university library, and I stumbled across a novel based on the life of Bruckner. I think the title was Music for God - but I'm not sure, since I've never been able to find this book since, and I don't remember the author's name.

I read bits and pieces of it, and one of the highlights was a proposal scene where Ol' Anton asks a young lady barely out of school if she will marry him. As I recall, her reaction was somewhat awkward. Wish I could find the book again; the author deserves credit for tackling such a singular personality.

[pjme]

The author is Theresa Weiser. "This 1951 book is about Bruckner, but it is written as an historical novel."
More fiction than facts.
https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/BrucknerFiction/weisertheresamusic/

At the Bruckner Institut in Linz website I couldn't find any publication on Bruckner and women :
http://www.abil.at/index.php

[mszczuj]

I read relation that at the end of his life Bruckner admitted that in his young years he kissed a girl once.

Then he probably instatntly falled in love in every young women or girl he met in his life.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The author is Theresa Weiser. "This 1951 book is about Bruckner, but it is written as an historical novel."
More fiction than facts.
https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/BrucknerFiction/weisertheresamusic/

At the Bruckner Institut in Linz website I couldn't find any publication on Bruckner and women :
http://www.abil.at/index.php

Wowza, thanks for that. I looked for it but couldn't find it.

[pjme]

 
You're welcome.
Peter