Any operetta fans on the board.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Cuban!  Hmmm...I think I'll play a Divertimento right now.

Sarge

[Joan]

Well, I would to lend some moral support to the operetta lovers' side; unfortunately, I'm not an expert of any kind, so I can't make many informed suggestions. However, I noticed that the suggestions so far have been German or Austrian; perhaps Harry would like to try something French? Last Sunday I heard a radio broadcast of this opera comique by Auber (it has spoken dialogue so I think that qualifies it as operetta, right?), and I liked it so much I ordered a copy; "Le Domino Noir" with Sumi Jo (really unfortunate photo of her on the cover!)



I know "sparkling" is a cliche for this sort of thing, but it really does apply to this. It's silly but charming. It received some very good
comments from some apparently well-informed folks over at Amazon. It just arrived this afternoon, so as soon as I get a chance to listen to it properly, I'll report back.

[Florestan]

perhaps Harry would like to try something French?

Or the Spanish Zarzuelas. Their melodies and rythms are an infectious delight.

[Harry]

You say that now, Harry. With more operatic exposure, who knows! O the things you'll hear! 

Mark my words, no, and double no!

[Harry]

Harry, are you saying you don't mind sopranos if they're singing Lehar, but you do if they sing Verdi?

Yes, funny huh, I did not work that out exactly, why that is. I am wondering about that for 35 years now, and still no answer.

[Harry]

A comprehensive survey of cult members, Wagnerites and other religious converts, mostly highly educated, rational members of society, shows that 90% of these people's famous last words when first making a trial approach to THE PATH, was --- "I will NOT convert."

You'll see my friend, I am firm in resolve!

[Harry]

Well, I would to lend some moral support to the operetta lovers' side; unfortunately, I'm not an expert of any kind, so I can't make many informed suggestions. However, I noticed that the suggestions so far have been German or Austrian; perhaps Harry would like to try something French? Last Sunday I heard a radio broadcast of this opera comique by Auber (it has spoken dialogue so I think that qualifies it as operetta, right?), and I liked it so much I ordered a copy; "Le Domino Noir" with Sumi Jo (really unfortunate photo of her on the cover!)



I know "sparkling" is a cliche for this sort of thing, but it really does apply to this. It's silly but charming. It received some very good
comments from some apparently well-informed folks over at Amazon. It just arrived this afternoon, so as soon as I get a chance to listen to it properly, I'll report back.

Looks absolutely promising! Will wait for your review Joan.

[Harry]

Or the Spanish Zarzuelas. Their melodies and rythms are an infectious delight.

Nice site, have been there, stayed long, so yes looks promising too.
Thanks Andrei.

[Steve]

Mark my words, no, and double no!

If one considers the positive in math (+ as yes), and the negative (- as no), then a double no is a double negative, which happens to be a positive. Subtle, Harry, subtle.  

[Harry]

If one considers the positive in math (+ as yes), and the negative (- as no), then a double no is a double negative, which happens to be a positive. Subtle, Harry, subtle.  

O, have it your way..................
I did not have coffee yet, so I cannot argue right now!

[Steve]

O, have it your way..................
I did not have coffee yet, so I cannot argue right now!

I'm up well past 2:00am here, so it's off to sleep now. 

[Harry]

I'm up well past 2:00am here, so it's off to sleep now. 

All those time zones, terribly confusing!
Sleep well my friend.

[Steve]

All those time zones, terribly confusing!
Sleep well my friend.

Till morrow, then.

[Tsaraslondon]

it has spoken dialogue so I think that qualifies it as operetta, right?

Actually no. Otherwise we would be able to call Fidelio and Carmen operettas, which of course they are not. Officially the former is a Singspiel and the latter an Opera-comique. Quite what constitutes an operetta is hard to say. Offenbach's La Belle Helene and Orphee aux Enfers are operettas, but his Les Contes d'Hofmann isn't, though it also has spoken dialogue. Nor is theme a guide. There are operas on light hearted themes, just as there are operettas on serious ones. According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Opera

Operetta. operette (It, Fr little opera). Originally used in the 17th cent. for a shoprt opera, the term became associated by the 19th cent. with comic opera, to describe a play with an overture, songs, interludes, and dances.

Wikipedia defines it thus;

Operetta is a genre of light opera, light in terms both of music and subject matter.

Normally some of the libretto is spoken rather than sung. Instead of moving from one musical number (literally so indicated in the scores) to another, the singers intersperse the musical segments (e.g. aria, recitative, chorus) with periods of dialogue without any singing or musical accompaniment, though sometimes some musical themes are played quietly under the dialogue) - and short passages of recitative are by no means unknown in operetta, especially as an introduction to a song.

Operettas are often considered less "serious" than operas, although this has more to do with the often comic (or even farcical) plots than with the caliber of the music. Topical satire is a feature common to many operettas, although of course this is also true of some "serious" operas as well. Formerly, opera expressed politics in code in some countries, such as France; e.g., the circumstances of the title character in the opera "Robert le Diable" was a code for the parental conflict and resolution of king of France at its first performance.

Operetta is a precursor of the modern musical comedy. At the same time it has continued to exist alongside the newer form - with each influencing the other. There is a fundamental but subtle distinction between the two forms - and this distinction is quite useful, provided we recognise that nothing here is clear, simple, or unambiguous.

Most operettas can be described as light operas with acting, whereas most musicals are closer to being plays with singing. This can best be seen in the performers chosen in the two forms. An operetta's cast will normally be classically trained opera singers; indeed, there is essentially no difference between the scores for an opera and an operetta, except for the operetta's lightness. A musical uses actors who sing, but usually not in an operatic style. Like most "differential definitions" we could draw between the two forms, however, this distinction is quite often blurred. W.S. Gilbert, for example, said that he preferred to use actors who could sing for his productions, while Ezio Pinza, a great Don Giovanni, appeared on Broadway in South Pacific, and there are features of operetta vocal style both in Kern's Show Boat (1927), Bernstein's Candide, and Walt Disney's animated Snow White (1937) among others.


Confused? I think I still am.

[Harry]

Actually no. Otherwise we would be able to call Fidelio and Carmen operettas, which of course they are not. Officially the former is a Singspiel and the latter an Opera-comique. Quite what constitutes an operetta is hard to say. Offenbach's La Belle Helene and Orphee aux Enfers are operettas, but his Les Contes d'Hofmann isn't, though it also has spoken dialogue. Nor is theme a guide. There are operas on light hearted themes, just as there are operettas on serious ones. According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Opera

Operetta. operette (It, Fr little opera). Originally used in the 17th cent. for a shoprt opera, the term became associated by the 19th cent. with comic opera, to describe a play with an overture, songs, interludes, and dances.

Wikipedia defines it thus;

Operetta is a genre of light opera, light in terms both of music and subject matter.

Normally some of the libretto is spoken rather than sung. Instead of moving from one musical number (literally so indicated in the scores) to another, the singers intersperse the musical segments (e.g. aria, recitative, chorus) with periods of dialogue without any singing or musical accompaniment, though sometimes some musical themes are played quietly under the dialogue) - and short passages of recitative are by no means unknown in operetta, especially as an introduction to a song.

Operettas are often considered less "serious" than operas, although this has more to do with the often comic (or even farcical) plots than with the caliber of the music. Topical satire is a feature common to many operettas, although of course this is also true of some "serious" operas as well. Formerly, opera expressed politics in code in some countries, such as France; e.g., the circumstances of the title character in the opera "Robert le Diable" was a code for the parental conflict and resolution of king of France at its first performance.

Operetta is a precursor of the modern musical comedy. At the same time it has continued to exist alongside the newer form - with each influencing the other. There is a fundamental but subtle distinction between the two forms - and this distinction is quite useful, provided we recognise that nothing here is clear, simple, or unambiguous.

Most operettas can be described as light operas with acting, whereas most musicals are closer to being plays with singing. This can best be seen in the performers chosen in the two forms. An operetta's cast will normally be classically trained opera singers; indeed, there is essentially no difference between the scores for an opera and an operetta, except for the operetta's lightness. A musical uses actors who sing, but usually not in an operatic style. Like most "differential definitions" we could draw between the two forms, however, this distinction is quite often blurred. W.S. Gilbert, for example, said that he preferred to use actors who could sing for his productions, while Ezio Pinza, a great Don Giovanni, appeared on Broadway in South Pacific, and there are features of operetta vocal style both in Kern's Show Boat (1927), Bernstein's Candide, and Walt Disney's animated Snow White (1937) among others.


Confused? I think I still am.

Well it clearly underlines some thoughts I had about the seriousness of music in operettas, and the quality of it.
Less serious operas, hmmmmmmmm!
Well that's good isn't it.
Thank you for this piece of info, it clarifies and blurs at the same time.!

[marvinbrown]

Not everything in music is about power and intensity. In that case we would all be listening to Mahler 6 & 9 all the time, with no time for all those wonderful Mozart divertimenti!

  Yes but we are not talking about any music here...we are talking about opera.  Opera and drama go hand in hand and thats where power and intensity come into it to provide for a truelly effective dramatic experience.  Mahler 6 and 9 need not apply  .
 
    marvin

[The new erato]

No, in this thread we're talking operetta. It is as irrelevant bringing opera into it as bringing Mahler into a discussion on Mozart divertimenti. Different animals with different aims and intentions, and what's greatest is impossible to say as they operate on so different levels. If I had to choose between opera and operetta I wouldn't hesitate in plunging for opera, but both categories have their own raison d'être.

What I find somewhat annoying in some threads is the automatic assumption by many that bigger is better. That is wrong. Bigger usually is just bigger. Probably why I generally prefer chamber music to symphonic music, and lieder to opera.

[Florestan]

What I find somewhat annoying in some threads is the automatic assumption by many that bigger is better. That is wrong. Bigger usually is just bigger.

Word.

[Hector]

So, somebody could end up liking operetta because they think it is opera-comique or light opera?

No bad thing, surely?

The distinctions are blurred, especially so when opera houses in Germany and Austria frequently stage "musicals" and 'Phantom of the Opera' is staged with a degree of seriousnees one would only expect for more serious works, and the ENO stages Sondheim!

As far as I'm concerned Gilbert and Sullivan is operetta and revered by the upper-middle classes, here, who have no taste but a great deal of vulgarity (and money) and have never fully understood that Gilbert's book and lyrics is taking the piss out of them!

[marvinbrown]

What I find somewhat annoying in some threads is the automatic assumption by many that bigger is better. That is wrong. Bigger usually is just bigger. Probably why I generally prefer chamber music to symphonic music, and lieder to opera.

  Surely you and Floresten are not implying that J. Strauss' Die Fledermaus is in the league of or stands shoulder to shoulder with Verdi's Falstaff or Wagner's Die Meistersingers von Nurnberg?? (both comedies mind you  )

  marvin