Johann Strauss Sohn (1825-1899)

Started by Lisztianwagner, December 16, 2011, 12:15:23 PM

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Jo498

loads = 3, Kaiserwalzer, Rosen aus dem Süden and Lagunenwalzer

https://www.schoenberg.at/index.php/de/faq/walzer-von-johann-strauss

IIRC Abbado had some Mozart dances in the 1991 concert because of the anniversary and he included also a bit of Schubert (orch. Webern! they did this to make some money!)

Welser Möst had 2 pieces by Richard Strauss a few years ago. I think Thielemann should have included the scherzo from Bruckner's 4th!
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Lisztianwagner

Jansons had some Mozart in 2006 for the anniversary too.

The Scherzo from the 4th Symphony would have been extraordinary! It is also as long as a Strauss' overture, more or less, so it wouldn't have taken too much time....
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Jo498

Yes, it's probably the most popular Bruckner piece and about as long as the longest waltzes like Emperor waltz. But they probably still thought it would be too much for a NYD concert.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Brian on December 05, 2023, 12:00:09 PMSchönberg arranged loads of Johann Strauss waltzes! He just did it for smaller chamber ensembles, not appropriate for that occasion. It was how he paid the bills for quite some time8)

Just like Wagner in Paris, arranging Bellini's hits for violin duet.  :D

"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

ritter

Quote from: Florestan on December 06, 2023, 02:14:10 AMJust like Wagner in Paris, arranging Bellini's Donizetti's hits for violin duet.  :D


Fixed that for you... :) What he did with Bellini was compose an alternate bass aria for Norma, and do some retouching of the orchestration for that opera and for Il Pirata, but I suspect these were for purely practical performance reasons (and predate his stay in Paris).

As for Schoenberg, AFAIK his waltz arrangements were to raise funds for the floundering Society for Private Musical Performances, which ceased its activities anyway. I doubt good old Arnold managed to buy a villa with the proceeds of those arrangements... ;D

Florestan

Quote from: ritter on December 06, 2023, 03:36:14 AMFixed that for you... :) What he did with Bellini was compose an alternate bass aria for Norma, and do some retouching of the orchestration for that opera and for Il Pirata, but I suspect these were for purely practical performance reasons (and predate his stay in Paris).

Thanks, I stand corrected. I see that besides Donizetti he also made arrangements of Halevy's and Auber's operas.  :D
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Lisztianwagner

Schönberg's arrangements of Strauss are extremely delightful pieces, with an expressive, colourful orchestration which brilliantly compensates the absence of most of the instruments of a original works; they aren't exactly as poetic, graceful and suggestive as Strauss' waltzes (at least, in my opinion), but they are really ravishing, airy and sparkling. Least, but not last, they are persuasive not to forget the Viennese spirit in the atmosphere they evoke. Unfortunately they can't be played at the Neujahrskonzert as at that point, the Wiener Philharmoniker might as well perform directly the original waltzes.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Jo498

I quite like the Kaiserwalzer because there he used real woodwinds instead of harmonium.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

ritter

#128
I heard the Kaiserwalzer arrangement live in concert (Klangforum Wien under Sylvain Cambreling) and it felt interminable  ::) . Fortunately, the rest of the programme (Stravinsky's Japanese Lyrics, Ravel's Mallarmé Songs, and  Pierrot Lunaire —all with Christine Schäfer) was memorable.

Actually, I don't like the Kaiserwalzer in the original either (or any Strauss waltzes, for that matter), so I apologise to all for posting on a thread where I have no positive contribution to make... :-[

Lisztianwagner

#129
Quote from: Jo498 on December 06, 2023, 11:40:01 AMI quite like the Kaiserwalzer because there he used real woodwinds instead of harmonium.
Kaiser-Walzer is my favourite Schönberg's arrangement for the same reason.

Quote from: ritter on December 06, 2023, 11:59:31 AMI heard the Kaiserwalzer arrangement live in concert (Klangforum Wien under Sylvain Cambreling) and it felt interminable  ::) . Fortunately, the rest of the programme (Stravinsky's Japanese Lyrics, Ravel's Mallarmé Songs, and  Pierrot Lunaire —all with Christine Schäfer— was memorable).

Actually, I don't like the Kaiserwalzer in the original either (or any Strauss waltzes, for that matter), so I apologise to all for posting on a thread where I have no positive contribution to make... :-[
cough*heresy*cough

Joking aside, no problem, any polite contribution is gladly accepted.

Wow, such a spectacular Pierrot Lunaire! Schäfer, with Boulez, recorded my favourite version of that Schönberg's work.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Jo498

I love the Kaiserwalzer, partly because I played it (badly) with orchestra in high school.
Schönberg adds/highlights an allusion to Haydn's Emperor hymn in the coda, although I still prefer the original. I hadn't really been aware of the Lagunenwalzer arrangement because my recording with the Boston chamber players doesn't have it.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Lisztianwagner

The Viennese New Year's Concert 2024 was enchanting and lively as well as full of lovely surprises, I appreciated a lot that the programm included so many works never played before (Strauss' Figaro-Polka and Ischler-Walzer, Lumbye's Galopp were awe inspiring; Bruckner's Quadrille was so nice, light and graceful, so different from his powerful and impressive symphonies); the Wiener Philharmoniker performed all the pieces amazingly, but in fact they master this kind of music superbly. Thielemann's conducting was quite beautiful and elegant, sometimes very poetical, but unfortunately also a bit too serious and austere, he didn't convey an atmosphere which evoked a great impression of joy and cheerfulness; in this case, Jansons and Prêtre were much better.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Florestan

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on January 01, 2024, 06:02:21 AMBruckner's Quadrille was so nice, light and graceful

I believe this is to be credited to the orchestration. I'm not sure the original 4-hand piano piece would have had the same effect.

QuoteThielemann's conducting was quite beautiful and elegant, sometimes very poetical, but unfortunately also a bit too serious and austere, he didn't convey an atmosphere which evoked a great impression of joy and cheerfulness

My thoughts exactly. Joy and cheerfulness are not quite Thielemann's thing.

All in all, this year's concert was not among the best but enjoyable nevertheless.
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Lisztianwagner

Quote from: Florestan on January 01, 2024, 06:21:05 AMI believe this is to be credited to the orchestration. I'm not sure the original 4-hand piano piece would have had the same effect.

My thoughts exactly. Joy and cheerfulness are not quite Thielemann's thing.

All in all, this year's concert was not among the best but enjoyable nevertheless.
Probably, changings in instrumentation always have an effect on the result, the orchestration could have made Bruckner's Quadrille airier compared to the original 4-hand piano version (but I don't know this latter one).

Yes, the Viennese New Year's Concert doesn't seem exactly Thielemann's cup of tea.

Next year, it is said that Riccardo Muti will be the conductor.
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Florestan

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on January 01, 2024, 06:48:46 AMthe Viennese New Year's Concert doesn't seem exactly Thielemann's cup of tea.

Precisely. He's much more at ease in "serious" repertoire. It's probably a question of personality. Nevertheless, he wasn't dull or disagreeable at all.

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on January 01, 2024, 06:48:46 AMNext year, it is said that Riccardo Muti will be the conductor.

A very different personality with a vastly greater experience in the New Year concert.
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on December 04, 2023, 11:14:29 PMOh my God! The Brucknerization is now complete --- and literal. I was afraid of what Thielemann might do ever since he was nominated as conductor for 2024, and I was right.  ;D
I see there's already been a conversation, but I can still add: it is a light dance, of course:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnX2GfEScH0FzMOOzFrelip8WIWN7eATu

Happy New Year, Andrei!

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Lisztianwagner

"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

Florestan

Quote from: Karl Henning on January 01, 2024, 07:48:29 AMI see there's already been a conversation, but I can still add: it is a light dance, of course:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnX2GfEScH0FzMOOzFrelip8WIWN7eATu

Happy New Year, Andrei!



Happy New Year, Karl!
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham