What the Huck?

[DavidRoss]

Indoctrination has always been a part of our education system. Yes, but not at the expense of education.  I don't think really think there's more of it now. I do.   Also, I don't think think this is a case of "political correctness" (a really tired phrase that should be retired)Not until after political correctness has been retired.  ,  but just goold old-fashioned, er, whitewashing. I'm of part European descent--should I be offended? 

The Daily Show bit on this was pretty funny (can't figure out how to embed)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-11-2011/mark-twain-controversy

[Daverz]

Can you give some specifics of indoctrination that gets in the way of education?  I think it's bad education and our unwillingness to put resources into good education that gets in the way of education.

[Josquin des Prez]

Indoctrination has always been a part of our education system.  I don't think really think there's more of it now.  Also, I don't think think this is a case of "political correctness"

Of course you would think that, since you belong to the camp that spawned and promoted political correctness in the first place. Its not political brainwashing and indoctrination if you agree with the message.

The Daily Show... funny...

No.

[DavidRoss]

Can you give some specifics of indoctrination that gets in the way of education?  I think it's bad education and our unwillingness to put resources into good education that gets in the way of education.

Sure.  How about this current whitewashing of Huck Finn?

[Daverz]

No.

Doh, The Daily Show bombs with the white supremacist demographic.  Who knew?

[Josquin des Prez]

Doh, The Daily Show bombs with the white supremacist demographic.  Who knew?

I just find Leibowitz's wit to be soporific (which explains his popularity among the average American). If i had to say something nice about him i might argue that he is not, at least, as irritating as Colbert.

[Daverz]

Sure.  How about this current whitewashing of Huck Finn?

How many schools use this edition?  How much of each day is taken up with studying bowdlerized editions of the classics?  I'm not sure exactly what kind of indoctrination is intended by this edition, if any, but get back to us when it actually gets widely adopted.

A better example might be the changes made by the Texas Textbook Committie, as Texas is a big market that has a large effect on publishers.

But I don't think this kind of craven avoidance of controversial topics in the Twain case is indoctrination, per se.  It can result in bad education.  An example would be the way many high school biology instructors feel the need to water down any discussion of evolution.  There are probably a lot of hot-button issues that get short shrift in public schools because parents or students would have a knee jerk reaction to them.

[Josquin des Prez]

An example would be the way many high school biology instructors feel the need to water down any discussion of evolution.

It appears liberals live in a completely different country then conservatives do. Might be a case of parallel dimensions seeping into each other.

[jowcol]

It appears liberals live in a completely different country then conservatives do. Might be a case of parallel dimensions seeping into each other.

Before we start talking in terms of  camps nd abstract labels, instead of actual issues and flesh and blood people, perhaps we may consider this quote by Edmund Burke, who has been hailed as the father of modern conservatism:

"I never govern myself, no rational man ever did govern himself, by abstractions and universals.  A statesman differs from a professor in a university; the latter has only the general view of society; the former, the statesman, has a number of circumstances to combine with those general ideas."

I'm curious which " camp" I'm in, given that in this case I took the  anti-PC side.

[Scarpia]

It appears liberals live in a completely different country then conservatives do. Might be a case of parallel dimensions seeping into each other.

I have certainly been told that teaching of evolution in my district is "watered down" because of fear that a fight with anti-science segments of the population would result.  I don't know if the person who told me this is liberal or conservative.  I know the person was an applied mathematician working with National Cancer Institute, at the National Institutes of Health.

[Josquin des Prez]

It is my general view that liberals are "feelings" people, while conservatives are more instinctive. Many tend to confuse feelings with instinct but they are two separate things.

[Florestan]

It appears liberals live in a completely different country then conservatives do. Might be a case of parallel dimensions seeping into each other.

Actually, "liberals" and "conservatives" live exactly in the same country, at least as far as politics is involved. All they are interested in, their ideological differences notwithstanding, is preserving the status-quo and preventing any third party to share in their political and economical power. I'm quite sure that, if an independent party would make such an electoral breakthrough as to threaten their bipolar supremacy, "liberals" would vote "conservatives" en masse (and viceversa) if the latter had a chance to overcome the outsider. (I'm talking about political kommissars and their gangs, not about average voters who are just as confound and duped, be they "liberals" and "conservatives").

[jowcol]

It is my general view that liberals are "feelings" people, while conservatives are more instinctive. Many tend to confuse feelings with instinct but they are two separate things.

There are two kinds of people, those that think in binary, and those that don't.

[Daverz]

More revisionist grist for the mill:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/jan/13/tea-parties-cite-legislative-demands/

"Fayette County attorney Hal Rounds, the group's lead spokesman during the news conference, said the group wants to address "an awful lot of made-up criticism about, for instance, the founders intruding on the Indians or having slaves or being hypocrites in one way or another."

[Florestan]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/jan/13/tea-parties-cite-legislative-demands/

the Constitution created a Republic, not a Democracy

True.

the founders [...] brought liberty into a world where it hadn't existed

Not true.

[Josquin des Prez]

Well, technically he is correct, if by world he means "America".

[Florestan]

Well, technically he is correct, if by world he means "America".

That's what he means, but it's still not true. Can anyone in all earnest claim that prior to the American Revolution there was no liberty at all in the British American Colonies? It's utterly absurd.

[RJR]

Maybe if spineless guilt ridden liberals hadn't made such a big fuss out of this word, which is used colloquially by blacks all the time in the first place. Chris Rock ranting about n****rs is considered funny but Huck Finn might potentially scar black people for life. Give me a brake.

I remember the brouhaha when it was discovered that Governor Sarah Palin tried to have certain books banned from the Wasilla Public Library. Among the titles on the black list was Roald Dahl's 'James and the Giant Peach'. A very subservive book, that. Does that make Ms Palin a 'spineless guilt ridden liberal' too?

[DavidRoss]

I remember the brouhaha when it was discovered that Governor Sarah Palin tried to have certain books banned from the Wasilla Public Library. Among the titles on the black list was Roald Dahl's 'James and the Giant Peach'. A very subservive book, that. Does that make Ms Palin a 'spineless guilt ridden liberal' too?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp