Bach Six Partitas

[Mandryka]

Premont shared with in another thread. Wim Winters on clavichord. Wonderful so far. If it were available to buy, I would buy it. I'm almost done with #1 and I'm sold.

WW makes this comment

The keyboard music in the early 18th c ("Germany") was looking for micro-expression, and you can compare the evolution harpsichord - clavichord with of the recorder - traverse. Articulation is something that was done often according to the textbook (all articulated, or all legato, or first two legato and then articulated), but there is much more expression to be made than this. Like a traverse player would do. i recently played some concerts with a very good traverse player and learned again so much. Same motifs however, should (well, ""should"""), let say, they benifit from having the same execution, the listener will recognize them easier and the overall structure will become clearer.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

1st and 2nd recordings by Pinnock. I like the both. I wonder if he re-recorded Partitas because he was unhappy about the recording sound, not his performance, of the first issue.

P.s. The LP jacket of the first recording must be exquisite.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Premont shared with in another thread. Wim Winters on clavichord. Wonderful so far. If it were available to buy, I would buy it. I'm almost done with #1 and I'm sold.

I follow Wim's Channel on and off - he's recorded the complete partitas just this January (videos of the complete recording sessions are online) and is planning to release them on both CD and Vinyl.

As of now, though, he's into Mozart. Eccentric, but quite convincing interpretations, especially since he plays at significantly slower, more relaxed speeds than most do, justifying it with the postulation that metronome marks should be halved. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yd7LWi4wus I don't know what to make of it, as such extraordinary claims should have extraordinary evidence (so to say), but musically it seems to be quite valid.

Is it just me, or does the Sarabande from the 6th suite seem to be one of those pieces that are "too good to be played?" To me, it should remind me of Froberger's Tombeau or the Allemande of Rameau, delicate and somber. But most make it into mere trifles; Winters comes close in mood but not quite. I'd like to hear it on Lautenwerk for more of a sense of style brise.

I'm listening to the Pinnock right now, and it's excellent. Colorful, playful, and sunny - probably the flip side of Winters, who is as introverted and poignant as the "Winters" suggests.
Sadly, the Rampe isn't avaliable on this side of the pond.

[milk]

I follow Wim's Channel on and off - he's recorded the complete partitas just this January (videos of the complete recording sessions are online) and is planning to release them on both CD and Vinyl.

As of now, though, he's into Mozart. Eccentric, but quite convincing interpretations, especially since he plays at significantly slower, more relaxed speeds than most do, justifying it with the postulation that metronome marks should be halved. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yd7LWi4wus I don't know what to make of it, as such extraordinary claims should have extraordinary evidence (so to say), but musically it seems to be quite valid.

Is it just me, or does the Sarabande from the 6th suite seem to be one of those pieces that are "too good to be played?" To me, it should remind me of Froberger's Tombeau or the Allemande of Rameau, delicate and somber. But most make it into mere trifles; Winters comes close in mood but not quite. I'd like to hear it on Lautenwerk for more of a sense of style brise.

I'm listening to the Pinnock right now, and it's excellent. Colorful, playful, and sunny - probably the flip side of Winters, who is as introverted and poignant as the "Winters" suggests.
Sadly, the Rampe isn't avaliable on this side of the pond.

I couldn't find Rampe either. I'm curious to check Suzuki's Sarabande. I can't wait for the recording by WW. I need it. I'm sorry to say I think the Partitas are not convincing on piano. Some individual pieces maybe. But not generally. It could work well in the clavichord. I'm surprised there are not more versions out there.

[milk]

Is it just me, or does the Sarabande from the 6th suite seem to be one of those pieces that are "too good to be played?" To me, it should remind me of Froberger's Tombeau or the Allemande of Rameau, delicate and somber. But most make it into mere trifles; Winters comes close in mood but not quite. I'd like to hear it on Lautenwerk for more of a sense of style brise.

Suzuki is very dramatic and weighty. Not exactly like Froberger (Froberger seems despondent to me) but not a trifle. Actually, Mortenson does make it sound like Froberger by being more hesitating - in a good way.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Suzuki is very dramatic and weighty. Not exactly like Froberger (Froberger seems despondent to me) but not a trifle. Actually, Mortenson does make it sound like Froberger by being more hesitating - in a good way.

Listened to both of them, and they're great! Especially Mortenson.

Another thing: I know I probably bring this up often, but I was shocked/surprised hearing the Capriccio of the 2nd suite being taken in such a slow manner. I like it, but do you know anyone else who does the same thing? Most just rush through it, which has its charm, but I like the mood a slower interpretation gives. Or does it not work on the harpsichord?
(Referring to Winters here)

[prémont]

1st and 2nd recordings by Pinnock. I like the both. I wonder if he re-recorded Partitas because he was unhappy about the recording sound, not his performance, of the first issue.

He probably re-recorded the partitas on Robert Levin's request.

[prémont]

Another thing: I know I probably bring this up often, but I was shocked/surprised hearing the Capriccio of the 2nd suite being taken in such a slow manner. I like it, but do you know anyone else who does the same thing? Most just rush through it, which has its charm, but I like the mood a slower interpretation gives. Or does it not work on the harpsichord?

I do not subscribe to the thought, that Bach intended the capriccio played that slow. I admit that Winters' interpretation works, but he makes another, non-idiomatic, piece of it.

[prémont]

WW makes this comment

The keyboard music in the early 18th c ("Germany") was looking for micro-expression, and you can compare the evolution harpsichord - clavichord with of the recorder - traverse. Articulation is something that was done often according to the textbook (all articulated, or all legato, or first two legato and then articulated), but there is much more expression to be made than this. Like a traverse player would do. i recently played some concerts with a very good traverse player and learned again so much. Same motifs however, should (well, ""should"""), let say, they benifit from having the same execution, the listener will recognize them easier and the overall structure will become clearer.

The parallel harpsichord - clavichord, recorder - traverse flute strikes me as being nonsense. It is actually about four very different instruments with their own independent story.

And the idea of consistent articulation has not been invented by Winters. On the contrary it has been "good Latin" since the 1950es (Leonhardt and so on), Even Walcha played in this way.

[milk]

Listened to both of them, and they're great! Especially Mortenson.

Another thing: I know I probably bring this up often, but I was shocked/surprised hearing the Capriccio of the 2nd suite being taken in such a slow manner. I like it, but do you know anyone else who does the same thing? Most just rush through it, which has its charm, but I like the mood a slower interpretation gives. Or does it not work on the harpsichord?

I'm not sure about this. I have to admit I only listened to the first partita without concentration. Listening a little more, I'm not sure I will like this whole set. This is like what Watchorn does with the WTC? Maybe I am childish, but I lose patience with repeatedly slow tempos. I need variation and it really depends on what the "whole" is like. But, I do think the clavichord is a great instrument for the partitas. I feel that the partitas benefit from sharp tones. Am I crazy? The round tones of the piano don't work for me here. I've repeatedly dissed Troeger and I feel a little bad about it. I wonder if someone can tell me what Troeger does that is special? I think Mortenson is my favorite even though he's got such a weird sound going.

[bioluminescentsquid]

I also don't think the Capriccio "should" be played that leisurely, but well, it works!

I found a video on which he discusses the tempo of the Capriccio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxZT8rpls0E

Some eccentric stuff on the channel, like Schubert's Gretchen or Beethoven's Waldstein played on Clavichord (with quite good results, I must say!)

As for the slow tempos, I'm also not a typical fan of them (Koopman's one of my guilty pleasures  ) and had a massive allergic reaction agains W.W.'s partitas at first, but it won me over later. It seems that he made some different tempo choices in his actual recording, but I haven't bothered to go through all the recording sessions to find out where and how.

[milk]

I also don't think the Capriccio "should" be played that leisurely, but well, it works!

I found a video on which he discusses the tempo of the Capriccio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxZT8rpls0E

Some eccentric stuff on the channel, like Schubert's Gretchen or Beethoven's Waldstein played on Clavichord (with quite good results, I must say!)

As for the slow tempos, I'm also not a typical fan of them (Koopman's one of my guilty pleasures  ) and had a massive allergic reaction agains W.W.'s partitas at first, but it won me over later. It seems that he made some different tempo choices in his actual recording, but I haven't bothered to go through all the recording sessions to find out where and how.

I'll probably purchase the recording when it comes. I'm interested.

[bioluminescentsquid]

I'll probably purchase the recording when it comes. I'm interested.

I'm eyeing Mortensen's partitas, any highlights to look out for?

[milk]

I'm eyeing Mortensen's partitas, any highlights to look out for?

Others can characterize it better than I can. It's hotly recorded. Clear lines of counterpoint. 

[Paul_Thomas]

1st and 2nd recordings by Pinnock. I like the both. I wonder if he re-recorded Partitas because he was unhappy about the recording sound, not his performance, of the first issue.

P.s. The LP jacket of the first recording must be exquisite.

He has stated on record that he much prefers his second recording, I have only heard the DG one though...

[prémont]

I'm eyeing Mortensen's partitas, any highlights to look out for?

It is elegant and colorful. Recommendable throughout.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

He has stated on record that he much prefers his second recording, I have only heard the DG one though...

I appreciate the info!

[Mandryka]

I'm eyeing Mortensen's partitas, any highlights to look out for?

There's a quality to Mortensen here which I think is quite distinctive, it's hard for me to explain but I think it's to do with how he creates drama and tells a story. The voices are independent and expressive, but not in a rapport. The drama doesn't come from a rapport between the voices like you hear in Egarr for example, or in Weiss. The result is a bit like in Carter's quartets - people all talking at the same time without listening to each other. And that to me makes the music sound very busy - a lot going on.

The above is probably nonsense, see what you think when you have the recording.

[milk]

This is Genzoh Takehisa on Silbermann fortepiano.

I've purchased this and just managed to listen to the 4th partita. My initial impression is good. I didn't know this performer. He produces a 10 minute allemande - so, slow tempo there - and generates lots of sensitivity with his use of agogics/hesitations. He's got a real feel and obvious affection for his instrument. It sounds like you really have to know the silbermann well to tame it this way. There's lots of imagination here and I'm surprised with what he does - his decisions. I could see the silbermann getting on people's nerves after a while though. It's clanky and stilted sometimes (especially in the courante, it works much better in the Allemande and sarabande). It works some places better than others, definitely. He sounds like he's fighting with his instrument in the gigue, but it's not a bad thing.   

[bioluminescentsquid]

Is it just me, or does the Sarabande from the 6th suite seem to be one of those pieces that are "too good to be played?" To me, it should remind me of Froberger's Tombeau or the Allemande of Rameau, delicate and somber. But most make it into mere trifles; Winters comes close in mood but not quite. I'd like to hear it on Lautenwerk for more of a sense of style brise.

I'm playing the Froberger tombeau right now, and I have no idea why I saw any resemblance between it and the Sarabande.