Bach Six Partitas

[Luke]

By comparison, Keith Jarrett's classical recordings don't seem particularly flexible or jazzy. Perhaps jazz pianists play classics to feel comfortable within a strict framework.

...though he does throw a few improvised flourishes in at appropriate places such as the slow movement of K488, which I think reflects his roots.

[AnotherSpin]

...though he does throw a few improvised flourishes in at appropriate places such as the slow movement of K488, which I think reflects his roots.

As many do in Mozart concertos. Have you listened to his Bach? The Goldberg Var., the French Suites, the WTC?

[Luke]

As many do in Mozart concertos.

Not saying they don't. But he's one that chooses to do so - and though they are small moments, I think you can hear that they are born of an overflow of expressive imperative and not just for scholarly reasons.

Have you listened to his Bach? The Goldberg Var., the French Suites, the WTC?

Sure, and in other composers too. I recognise what you are saying, but I do hear individuality and occasional impulsiveness there too.

[Mandryka]

I've known the performance for ages but I've only just found this video.

Jarrett wonderfully dancing before he starts to play in the rondo

[Mandryka]

WTF! Bach's keyboard music is nowadays still mostly played on anachronistic instruments.

Anachronistic or not, I think Helmchen has made a lovely recording!

[AnotherSpin]

Not saying they don't. But he's one that chooses to do so - and though they are small moments, I think you can hear that they are born of an overflow of expressive imperative and not just for scholarly reasons.

Sure, and in other composers too. I recognise what you are saying, but I do hear individuality and occasional impulsiveness there too.

Starting in the mid 70's I listened to an immense amount of Jarrett's albums. He was one of very few of my favourite musicians. It was solo improvisations like Köln Concerto, etc. and jazz line-ups like My Song or Byablue. I had dozens of his albums, more than of any other artist in any genre. When his performances of "serious" music started to appear, I was not a bit surprised. His interpretations bore little resemblance to the Jarrett I knew and loved. The complete, unrestricted freedom of his solo albums had been replaced by the rigid confines of composed music. My initial impressions of his Bach, Händel or Mozart were not particularly favourable, and it was only with time that I got used to a different Jarrett.

[aukhawk]

Same here, pretty much.

[Atriod]

Starting in the mid 70's I listened to an immense amount of Jarrett's albums. He was one of very few of my favourite musicians. It was solo improvisations like Köln Concerto, etc. and jazz line-ups like My Song or Byablue. I had dozens of his albums, more than of any other artist in any genre. When his performances of "serious" music started to appear, I was not a bit surprised. His interpretations bore little resemblance to the Jarrett I knew and loved. The complete, unrestricted freedom of his solo albums had been replaced by the rigid confines of composed music. My initial impressions of his Bach, Händel or Mozart were not particularly favourable, and it was only with time that I got used to a different Jarrett.

Gulda also played classical music very straight forward though he certainly enjoyed portraying himself as an eccentric. Gulda was a great jazz pianist, the interplay in some of those duo performances with two piano is superb.

[DavidW]

Colourful late 18th century piano, tangent, anachronistic. Not sure about the performances yet, I've heard the 6th, certainly  he has a natural sounding and expressive way with the phrasing in the allemande. Here's the booklet

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/36/000169763.pdf

Finally gave this a listen.  I really enjoyed the relaxed performance and I enjoy the sound of the instrument. 

[Atriod]

Should I buy tickets to see Jeremy Denk play all six partitas? Has anyone heard him play them? For some reason I have it in my mind that he takes a sort of homogenous legato heavy take on Bach that could get dull with six partitas in a row.

It's a four hour round trip drive which is another sticking point.

[Mandryka]

Should I buy tickets to see Jeremy Denk play all six partitas? Has anyone heard him play them? For some reason I have it in my mind that he takes a sort of homogenous legato heavy take on Bach that could get dull with six partitas in a row.

It's a four hour round trip drive which is another sticking point.

You know he recorded some of them?  I haven't heard it.

[Atriod]

You know he recorded some of them?  I haven't heard it.

I did see he recorded half of them when I posted that, but I had this overwhelming feeling of ambivalence (and still do) about streaming them, so I was hoping someone could write something about them. I have to really be in the mood for this music on piano. I'm likely going to pass on the concert, hearing all six on piano in short succession seems a bit nuts to me. I'd do it for both books of WTC but not the partitas, maybe Schiff or Babayan would be very rare exceptions.

[Atriod]

I listened to Denk in the fourth. It's legato rich, beautiful/lyrical, homogeneous. I hear little of the contrapuntal clarity I would hear in the likes of ECM Schiff, Koroliov, Rubsam, Peter Hill (I hope Hill records them). Of course I prefer them on harpsichord and while this would be lower down on Bach's keyboard music I really love, I think I'd attend one of my favorite harpsichordists like Celine Frisch playing all six.

[atardecer]

A Schiff lecture on the Bach Keyboard Partitas. Some points of interest:

- The difference between the Partitas and the French and English Suites, is essentially nothing. They are all collections of dance movements.

- The Spanish Sarabande tends to be the emotional center piece of the suite, the deepest movement.

- Partita No. 3 in A minor contains a rare (only?) Bach Scherzo, also a Burlesca, the latter movement we don't see again until Bartók.

- There is recurring intervallic and thematic material shared between all of the movements in Partita No. 2 in C minor.

- The Allemande from Partita no. 4 in D major, is difficult to analyze and many consider it the most beautiful movement from all the partitas.

- The Partita no. 6 is widely considered the 'deepest'. The Sarabande from this work is difficult to analyze and the harmonies are very modern, it has an improvisatory feel.

- 10 of the 12 notes are used in the main theme from the Gigue from Partita no. 6, when the counter theme comes in all 12 are used. With enharmonic notes this piece and many Bach pieces can be analyzed to contain 14 notes, which is the numerical equivalent of his name.

- In a couple movements Schiff alters the timing as it is notated, which I find interesting. I'm not sure I find his reasoning convincing.

[Selig]

BBC Radio 3 Building a Library,  25 May 2024 - JS Bach: Keyboard Partitas, BWV 825–830

3.00 pm


Joanna MacGregor chooses her favourite recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's Keyboard Partitas BWV 825-830.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001zggg

Her favorites, then (winner in bold):

Piano
Rosalyn Tureck 2nd recording (beautiful left hand, expresses the music without emoting, philosophical - 'unfolding thought')
Glenn Gould (brilliant communicative right hand against heavy staccato LH, strange spreading of chords, jazziness)
András Schiff 1st recording (light and sculpted, freedom and swing, brain firing on all cylinders with witty decision-making)

She clearly has some nostalgic attachment to the Schiff though, as she got to know it as a young pianist.

Harpsichord
Zuzana Růžičková (epic, huge sound & color, orchestrates like a conductor)
Scott Ross (modern, structural clarity, letting the music speak for itself)

[prémont]

Her favorites, then (winner in bold):

Piano
Rosalyn Tureck 2nd recording (beautiful left hand, expresses the music without emoting, philosophical - 'unfolding thought')
Glenn Gould (brilliant communicative right hand against heavy staccato LH, strange spreading of chords, jazziness)
András Schiff 1st recording (light and sculpted, freedom and swing, brain firing on all cylinders with witty decision-making)

She clearly has some nostalgic attachment to the Schiff though, as she got to know it as a young pianist.

Harpsichord
Zuzana Růžičková (epic, huge sound & color, orchestrates like a conductor)
Scott Ross (modern, structural clarity, letting the music speak for itself)

These choices may be politically correct in some circles but disappointing to me.

I have never studied Tureck's Bach recordings in depth - they simply do not appeal to me, but I have heard her play Partita No. 2 at a concert. There was nothing philosophical there and I would rather call her approach pompous and motoric.

The things that MacGregor highlights about Gould and Schiff are precisely the things that annoy me the most, and I regard both as pretentious eccentrics.

The description of Růžičková is good, but Walcha is more subtle than her in every respect.

And finally Ross. A firm but rather unimaginative interpretation. Too neutral and the diametrical contrast to Gould who is too interventionist.

[Atriod]

Her favorites, then (winner in bold):

Piano
Rosalyn Tureck 2nd recording (beautiful left hand, expresses the music without emoting, philosophical - 'unfolding thought')
Glenn Gould (brilliant communicative right hand against heavy staccato LH, strange spreading of chords, jazziness)
András Schiff 1st recording (light and sculpted, freedom and swing, brain firing on all cylinders with witty decision-making)

She clearly has some nostalgic attachment to the Schiff though, as she got to know it as a young pianist.

Harpsichord
Zuzana Růžičková (epic, huge sound & color, orchestrates like a conductor)
Scott Ross (modern, structural clarity, letting the music speak for itself)

I wonder if she has heard Schiff's ECM recording? Hands down I prefer it to the Decca.

She picked two of the harpsichordists I could go without hearing ever again and it would be no loss to me. Both often unrelenting in their interpretations.

[Mandryka]

You don't get paid much for doing a Building a Library, and very often the main interest from journalists is being invited to do another. It's a huge amount of work to do the job thoroughly, review all recordings thoroughly, there are no peer reviews. Your producer just wants a smooth programme delivered on time with no unpleasant after effects. There's always a temptation to just take the route of minimum resistance.


I don't believe that she has listened to Ross, which to me sounds highly strung rather than just "letting the music speak." Either that, or this business of listening is more subjective than even I thought. I like Tureck's second recording as much as any modern piano recording, maybe more.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Her favorites, then (winner in bold):

Glenn Gould (brilliant communicative right hand against heavy staccato LH, strange spreading of chords, jazziness)

I picked up Gould's Partitas on vinyl a while back. I like almost all of GG's Bach, but this one is kind of a mixed bag. The 4th Partita is extraordinary - slower than usual but with enough forward motion and lots of great detail. The others are pretty good but don't rise to that level. Also, I think they were recorded at different sessions, some being mono and some stereo, with an inconsistent attitude toward repeats. As a total set, it doesn't really hold together that well.

[Jo498]

Yes, partita 6 and 5? were mono only IIRC. But I think it is one of the best recordings Gould made. I am not sure I'd prefer any of his other Bach, maybe one of the Goldbergs but the other sets of suites or the WTC are far more uneven, I think.