Nørgård's Niche

[Madiel]

Most definitely the outlier.

[snyprrr]

The reading of Jorma Panula also proceeds rather quickly through the second movement, so Segerstam seems like the outlier, even though I find his take the most satisfying.

I'm listening to Seger. now, imagining what 1/2 speed would sound like. Must be quite aggressive. What I hear with Seger. in that suble/minute shift from "Non-Wrathful" to "Wrathful" in its proper context. BOTH Non-Wrathful and Wrathful are similar, but the latter contains, ... well,... the "Wrath", which manifests in just the minutest measure of turbulence in Seger's conducting.

I guess the others are emphasizing the contrast, whereas I think Seger has more of the correct "Eastern" mindset as to how Wrathful-NonWrathful works,...

eh?

[snyprrr]

Storgards on YT

Yea, he takes the mysterious mush away... clarifies the "chinese" music in the opening... more hard bone... as if Boulez were conducting??

We all have our fun with Seger, but, on the things he rules, he rules them for a very specific reason- he can get magical things to happen. Storgards sounds to me like he conducting a symphony. Seger sounds like he's conjuring magical stuff... that said, that odd instrument in the middle of Storgards (some horn?) is captured very nicely, followed by a nice solo violin.

But, Storg. isn't soooo much more violent than Seger, or anything, so, one can't say Seger is being slack or polite...


Yea, I'm missing the mystery of the Seger here in the quite section at the end... to clinical 4 me...

[Madiel]

As mentioned in the listening thread, I listened to all 8 symphonies today. Not quite Holmboe or Faure levels of potential obsession yet, but pretty good all the same.

I'm ready to declare the 7th as my favourite for now. The 5th and 8th are the ones I'm struggling with the most at this point. But more than anything I'm happy that they're all distinct entities in my head, with quite different moods and effects.

[snyprrr]

As mentioned in the listening thread, I listened to all 8 symphonies today. Not quite Holmboe or Faure levels of potential obsession yet, but pretty good all the same.

I'm ready to declare the 7th as my favourite for now. The 5th and 8th are the ones I'm struggling with the most at this point. But more than anything I'm happy that they're all distinct entities in my head, with quite different moods and effects.

7 has the roto-toms? A very jungle like sonic experience as I remember...

[Madiel]

Yes, no.7 is the one with the 14 tuned toms in it.

[Turner]

An interesting account of Nørgård´s youth from a friend, very detailed about early cultural influences etc.
(but unfortunately only in Danish; those somewhat familiar with Scandinavian or German texts should be able grasp some of it, and of course there´s always Google Translate, which seems to be getting better):

http://hanshenriksen.dk/solo-intimo.html

Among other things, Nørgård´s cello-player friend is describing the authoritarian school years, both experiencing a mistaken English bombing of a school in central Copenhagen, early concert experiences, a visit to Sibelius (where Nørgård just kept in the background), early musicianship and compositions, many canoeing holidays in Denmark, Nørgård and the visual arts (Chagall) and literature (Kafka, Poe), Holmboe as a teacher, Nordic identity, Nørgård´s early wedding and trip to Paris, Blomdahl, early reviews and debates, etc.

[Madiel]

Golly, that's quite lengthy.

Still, if I'm going to make use of this language...

[Turner]

I checked Google Translate for the first section, it took no time and it seems to be doing acceptable, but not entirely faultless work.

At least, the text is written in old-school Danish, like that of Karen Blixen, and not influenced by contemporary slang ...

[snyprrr]

'Helle Nacht'

I still don't like it. I have the Chandos recording, and I must say that the Ligeti just blows the Norgard out of the water. Am I missing a certain section or something? The opening just doesn't grab me, and I'm not finding the redemption I seek.

[CRCulver]

'Helle Nacht'

I still don't like it. I have the Chandos recording, and I must say that the Ligeti just blows the Norgard out of the water. Am I missing a certain section or something? The opening just doesn't grab me, and I'm not finding the redemption I seek.

If you don't like it at first hearing, it could be that Norgard isn't for you, but the now-defunct pernoergaard.dk website (luckily still available through the Wayback Machine) has a good description of all four movements that describes the games of perception that are the foundation of the work.

[snyprrr]

If you don't like it at first hearing, it could be that Norgard isn't for you, but the now-defunct pernoergaard.dk website (luckily still available through the Wayback Machine) has a good description of all four movements that describes the games of perception that are the foundation of the work.

I will try again!

I dooo like the Symphonies and the Late String Quartets... VC just wasn't what I expected at first... thought it would be more like classic Ligeti or something... what's your favorite part of the piece?...

[snyprrr]

"piece of the part"

[millionrainbows]

There doesn't seem to be much talk about this composer whom I feel is one of the most, if not THE most, profound composer of the past 50 years. So here's a little intro for those not acquainted!

Per Nørgård



Born July 13th, 1932 in Gentofte, Denmark.

Studied under both Nadia Boulanger and Vagn Holmboe.

Had a correspondence with Jean Sibelius for some time before the master's death in 1957 (Sibelius is also a huge influence on Nørgård).

Experimented with serial and collage techniques in his early works.

Discovered a series of numbers called the Infinity Series, which is, to be honest, over my head. Some good examples of pieces that utilize the series are Voyage Into the Golden Screen and the 2nd and 3rd symphonies.

Became obsessed with the schizophrenic Swiss artist Adolf Wölfli, eventually writing several works based around Wölfli's troubled life and work. Major works from his "Wölfli" period are the 4th Symphony and the opera, The Divine Tivoli (Tivoli translates to something like "circus" or "carnival").

His latest works from the 1990s to now are harder to pin down. His 5th symphony I honestly don't understand, but other more recent pieces seem to be more accessible, such as his piano concerto.

I hope this has been educational! 

Yes, it has, and I like Norgard's music; I have his string quartets and a couple of the symphonies. I ran in to the mention of Adolf Woelfli (that's how it's spelled in the liner notes) in the Terry Riley CD "Moscow Conservatory Concert" in which Riley mentions his opera "The Saint Adolf Ring" which is based on the writings and drawings of Woelfli, who created a vast body of work during his 35-year stay in a mental institution.

[Turner]

Nørgård-interest advancing somewhat in Germany, following the Siemens Prize;

there will be no 9th symphony, due to health problems.

https://nsnbc.me/2017/11/14/magical-worlds-of-multidimensional-nature/

[relm1]

Nørgård-interest advancing somewhat in Germany, following the Siemens Prize;

there will be no 9th symphony, due to health problems.

https://nsnbc.me/2017/11/14/magical-worlds-of-multidimensional-nature/

Darn.  i wish he would get an assistant to help him when his mind was still strong but his body fails him like Ralph Vaughan Williams and Henze did in their advanced age.  I want to hear his No. 9.

[Mirror Image]

Cross-post:

Went on a bit of a Nørgård tear and here are the results:

I listened to a few of Nørgård's works last night and have become quite fascinated by the sonorities found in his music. To some degree, he reminds me of Ligeti with perhaps some Xenakis and Grisey/Murail thrown in, but filtered through the punk mindset of "I don't give a f***" and you get where I'm going with this description. I think time has been a great healer and I'm finding I enjoy the music more this time around now that I have a better understanding of where he's coming from musically. There are several periods of his compositional development, but the most 'off the cuff' so to speak is his current music, which seems to go in several directions with no specific style set in stone.

[vandermolen]

Cross-post:

I listened to a few of Nørgård's works last night and have become quite fascinated by the sonorities found in his music. To some degree, he reminds me of Ligeti with perhaps some Xenakis and Grisey/Murail thrown in, but filtered through the punk mindset of "I don't give a f***" and you get where I'm going with this description. I think time has been a great healer and I'm finding I enjoy the music more this time around now that I have a better understanding of where he's coming from musically. There are several periods of his compositional development, but the most 'off the cuff' so to speak is his current music, which seems to go in several directions with no specific style set in stone.

How very interesting John. I think that No.1 is great especially on Chandos but need to explore more. No.3 is next up as it's the only other one I have on CD.

[Mirror Image]

How very interesting John. I think that No.1 is great especially on Chandos but need to explore more. No.3 is next up as it's the only other one I have on CD.

Very nice, Jeffrey. The third is regarded as his masterpiece and, it is, a very fine work, but I'm always interested in hearing the seldom heard or talked about works in addition to those highly acclaimed ones. My understanding of the third is it's his complete culmination of the 'infinity series' he had been experimenting with for a decade (?). The second movement puts a smile on my face every time I hear it. Just brilliant stuff.

[Madiel]

Goodness, that is QUITE a "tear".

I still haven't moved past the Da Capo symphony series, plus a few scattered works that I've collected during my Holmboe-quest.