Bach's Repeats

[Bulldog]

How do you like them served up?  Or perhaps you don't want them on the menu at all.

[MN Dave]

Good topic.

I never know what folks are talking about when they mention these. I mean, I guess I know what a repeat is but I don't read scores so wouldn't necessarily know if there was one included or not.

[Clever Hans]

I prefer to have them, played a little differently, but I'm not militant.
It seems more noticeable in keyboard music.

Leonhardt's omission of them, perhaps at a label's behest, does grieve me.

[Scarpia]

Good topic.

I never know what folks are talking about when they mention these. I mean, I guess I know what a repeat is but I don't read scores so wouldn't necessarily know if there was one included or not.

Presumably you would notice that the same music is played twice?

I'm strongly in favor, for all eras and genres of music.

[kishnevi]

Since I go on the theory that one can never have too much Bach, I say, repeat the repeats.
Of course, what is necessary is a performer who has the sense and style to make the repeat sound like something other than a repeat.

[MN Dave]

Presumably you would notice that the same music is played twice?

I'm strongly in favor, for all eras and genres of music.

Sure, but is all repeated music an optional repeat?

[prémont]

I prefer to have them, played a little differently, but I'm not militant.
It seems more noticeable in keyboard music.

This covers very much my opinion.

An example of excellent (and for once not overdone) repeating is Ton Koopman´s in his recording of Bach´s French Suites - one of his best harpsichord recordings.

[Scarpia]

Sure, but is all repeated music an optional repeat?

Nothing from Bach's pen is optional, in my view. 

Bach does not employ them indiscriminately, when he uses them they highlight a structural division in the music.   

[Bulldog]

Sure, but is all repeated music an optional repeat?

The repeat is called for in a score, but it isn't illegal for the performer to omit it.

[DarkAngel]

Repeats are usually noted in the written music score........and numbers above indicate the type of repeat desired.

In baroque music of Bach's time repeat did not literally mean play exact same thing over again, but to futher develop or ornament the original subject........like the repeated section of baroque da capo aria

[Clever Hans]

An example of excellent (and for once not overdone) repeating is Ton Koopman´s in his recording of Bach´s French Suites - one of his best harpsichord recordings.

I'm listening to him play 812 on youtube right now, because I don't own that recording. Very natural.
He has such virtuosity it is very frustrating. What I've listened to from his goldbergs, WTC, and especially Teldec organ works are so impressive--the latter very well recorded--, and I think he is on to something about baroque improvisation and exuberance, but he just does not know when to rein himself in. It's odd, because his cantata recordings are more reserved (in comparison), if not as focused as Suzuki's. Of course, he has many fans for his technique alone. I hope he records a bach organ integral one more time and takes into consideration the common criticism.

[jochanaan]

Sure, but is all repeated music an optional repeat?

Up until about 1800, repeats were considered obligatory, and there was usually some ornamentation, a dynamic change, or some other variation the second time through.  In the 1960s, Harold C. Schonberg in his book The Great Conductors suggested that composers after 1800 or so began to feel that a repeat was optional.  I'm not sure what his evidence was for that.  And from the evidence of more modern recordings, more recent scholarship has probably found that there is no such thing as an "optional" repeat.

In my performing experience, it's always necessary to verify to the players whether the repeats are being taken or not.  And remind them.  And repeat the reminder. (We've got a lot of things on our minds when we do a concert, so it's not surprising that sometimes details like whether a repeat is taken or not gets lost in our brains. )

[Bulldog]

Here are just a few ways that performers vary Bach's repeats:

1.  Trills
2.  Rhythmic hesitations
3.  Staggering of musical lines
4.  Agogic Pauses
5.  Tempo changes
6.  Changes in dynamics
7.  Taking the upper voice to the highest register
8.  Textural changes

With the above just as an introduction, how do you want performers to play Bach's repeats?

[jochanaan]

...With the above just as an introduction, how do you want performers to play Bach's repeats?

As a performer, I don't care how it's done; just do something different!   If you can't improvise, there's always the possibility of writing in the "extra" notes to be played the second time.  Lots of composers indicate a difference between the first and subsequent repeat runs.

Also, there are standard ornamentations that were always played even when not specifically written in, such as trills at harmonic cadence points; sometimes the second time I'll add a turn to the trill, or a mordent on the very last note.

And again, speaking as a performer who's played my share of Bach, strict historical accuracy isn't quite as important as developing your own style and repertoire of ornaments etc.  You don't want to let Bach's music evolve into a Coltrane-style jam , but there's a surprising degree of freedom that is not only harmless but necessary for Bach and other Baroque music.