Emma Kirkby

[canninator]

Hi Harry. To rephrase what I wrote above, any singing tone is manufactured in the sense a choice being made for a couple of parameters. How much vibrato, head or chest register to include? My singing teacher said it was like putting cream in coffee. Do you want it near black or creamy? This is most apparent in the lower middle of a soprano where she may sing can belto appropriate for "Toujours la mort" in the Card Scene from Carmen or light, in any coloratura where one needs only to scoop down and just touch the lower notes.

Crossover singers for musicals, etc., blank out the full range of overtones. And so on. The latter is what I believe Kirkby was doing most of the time, emphasizing a nearly vibrato-less top while not including most of the lower overtones. This is the typical timbre one expects from choirboys, nice for a lot of Renaissance and Baroque music, but I'm not sure this was the kind of sound Handel got from his own sopranos.

It's really not as simple as that, not at all...

ZB

A really nice informed post. Seeing as you know what you are talking about I'll ask a couple of questions if I may. How much information is their for performance practice for singing renaissance and baroque repertoire from primary sources? Does Emma Kirkby seem to follow this performance practice and, importantly, do you have a feel for how her performance practice has changed over her career? Performance practice for early plucked strings has changed massively over a similar period (70's to now) so it would be nice to know if the same has happened for the singers.

[zamyrabyrd]

A really nice informed post. Seeing as you know what you are talking about I'll ask a couple of questions if I may. How much information is their for performance practice for singing renaissance and baroque repertoire from primary sources? Does Emma Kirkby seem to follow this performance practice and, importantly, do you have a feel for how her performance practice has changed over her career? Performance practice for early plucked strings has changed massively over a similar period (70's to now) so it would be nice to know if the same has happened for the singers.

First of all, I am not an expert on Emma Kirkby's career or HIP in general. I can usually analyze a singing voice because that is partially what I do for a living. This is not perhaps difficult for any musician to do if one puts one's mind to it.  The theory of the registers in the voice goes back at least to the 1600's. Empirically, it was found to be useful for the demands of dramatic singing in the development of opera.

Cutting out chest resonance was not, as far as I know, practiced at any time, except around the mid 20th century with the proliferation of counter-tenors, many if not most, are/were baritones who develop the falsetto at the expense of the chest resonance. I had a baritone who could sing "Ave Maria" in the soprano key but decided he wanted the entirety of his voice instead, so gave it up.

But singing Medieval and Renaissance sounded "authentic" with a choirboy sort of timbre so a person like Kirkby extended that use to Baroque music as well. It's an acquired taste, I guess, that I don't have.

zamyra-bird

[DarkAngel]

I am in the camp that thinks Kirkby has huge historical importance in early HIP movement, a true inspiration to future singers, but the new younger generation of baroque female singers have raised the bar even higher in overall singing technique. (like Kozena)

Kirkby at her very best can heard in her fabulous Mozart Exsultate Jubilate, along with Hogwood AAM providing perfect orchestral background, this is easily my reference rendition. Kirkby has inspired ornamented runs (1:56-2:15, 3:19-3:34, 4:10-4:22) that show a confident creative artist at the top of her game, I have listened to almost every available version and she tops them all with an inventive spontaneous delivery in perfect harmony with Hogwood, the pristine silvery highs are icing on the cake.........Moazart would approve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x31bOFmBUxY

[Coopmv]

I am in the camp that thinks Kirkby has huge historical importance in early HIP movement, a true inspiration to future singers, but the new younger generation of baroque female singers have raised the bar even higher in overall singing technique. (like Kozena)

Kirkby at her very best can heard in her fabulous Mozart Exsultate Jubilate, along with Hogwood AAM providing perfect orchestral background, this is easily my reference rendition. Kirkby has inspired ornamented runs (1:56-2:15, 3:19-3:34, 4:10-4:22) that show a confident creative artist at the top of her game, I have listened to almost every available version and she tops them all with an inventive spontaneous delivery in perfect harmony with Hogwood, the pristine silvery highs are icing on the cake.........Moazart would approve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x31bOFmBUxY



Leaving out Emma Kirkby for the moment, I actually prefer the Canadian soprano Karina Gauvin over Kozena.  Gauvin is certainly from the same generation as Kozena.

[Sorin Eushayson]

Hmm... I just don't understand Kirby's popularity.  I remember when I first heard her voice on the Hogwood recording of Messiah several years ago; I thought to myself, "What is that???"  There must be something I'm not getting here, because her voice sounds diminutive and shrill to my ears.  Personally, I try to avoid recordings with her name on it! 

[zamyrabyrd]

Maybe Moazart, an alleged Baroque composer might approve, but Mozart the classic composer, preferred full voiced WOMEN, like Kiri (cited here) and not cute little choirboys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ2rSyPckTU&feature=related

[Harry]

Hmm... I just don't understand Kirby's popularity.  I remember when I first heard her voice on the Hogwood recording of Messiah several years ago; I thought to myself, "What is that???"  There must be something I'm not getting here, because her voice sounds diminutive and shrill to my ears.  Personally, I try to avoid recordings with her name on it! 

Well of course you are well in line with your Super General on Mayhem, you must be, otherwise you will loose your stripes.
Walk the line huh?

[The new erato]

Well of course you are well in line with your Super General on Mayhem, you must be, otherwise you will loose your stripes.
Walk the line huh?

What's this about? Is it a new line on GMG that if one dislikes something, that one's motives should be questioned instead of one's taste? I like "HIP" singing in early music (Jessye Norman in Mozart would be an abomination to me), but can full well understand and respect that some don't.  I can argue their taste and preferences, but not their motives.

[Harry]

What's this about? Is it a new line on GMG that if one dislikes something, that one's motives should be questioned instead of one's taste? I like "HIP" singing in early music (Jessye Norman in Mozart would be an abomination to me), but can full well understand and respect that some don't.  I can argue their taste and preferences, but not their motives.

Well I question his motives Erato, that's obvious, right?

[Rod Corkin]

Well I question his motives Erato, that's obvious, right?

You are crazy Harry. You should be well aware I have critisised Kirkby elsewhere, so my comments here are not to 'stirr' but are genuine. From what I have heard of her, which is quite a lot, I genuinely believe Kirkby is a poor singer and that's putting it politely.

[Harry]

You are crazy Harry. You should be well aware I have critisised Kirkby elsewhere, so my comments here are not to 'stirr' but are genuine. From what I have heard of her, which is quite a lot, I genuinely believe Kirkby is a poor singer and that's putting it politely.

Rod Corkin, that is not at all polite my friend.

[Tsaraslondon]

Oh dear, oh dear. Aren't we all getting a bit personal?

I am not a big fan of Kirkby, but I would never describe her, as Rod does, as a poor singer. Her pure, asexual, almost choirboyish tone doesn't appeal to me in the music of Mozart and other Classical composers, and I would even question its use in the operas of Handel, but she is evidently technically proficient. The Exsultate Jubilate that DarkAngel posted is ample evidence of that. I listened to it and enjoyed it up to a point, but like ZB, I prefer Te Kanawa in this music. Popp I like even better. However, as Mozart wrote it for a castrato, I suppose none of us will ever know what it sounded like to Mozart.

But I digress. Kirkby is a very fine singer, whose method and style doesn't appeal to me personally. She was at the forefront of the HIP movement and has done much to further its cause, and therefore richly deserves her Damehood.

[Rod Corkin]

Oh dear, oh dear. Aren't we all getting a bit personal?

I am not a big fan of Kirkby, but I would never describe her, as Rod does, as a poor singer. Her pure, asexual, almost choirboyish tone doesn't appeal to me in the music of Mozart and other Classical composers, and I would even question its use in the operas of Handel, but she is evidently technically proficient. The Exsultate Jubilate that DarkAngel posted is ample evidence of that. I listened to it and enjoyed it up to a point, but like ZB, I prefer Te Kanawa in this music. Popp I like even better. However, as Mozart wrote it for a castrato, I suppose none of us will ever know what it sounded like to Mozart.

But I digress. Kirkby is a very fine singer, whose method and style doesn't appeal to me personally. She was at the forefront of the HIP movement and has done much to further its cause, and therefore richly deserves her Damehood.

She is a fine singer you say, but you can't think of any music which would suit her voice?? Perhaps she deserves her Damehood for 'general services' to the UK music scene, but certainly for her services to Handel, since you mention him, she deserves less than many other less well known singers who I can confirm do a much better job with the same music.

[Tsaraslondon]

She is a fine singer you say, but you can't think of any music which would suit her voice??

Did I say that? I think not. Not that you ever take any notice of what other people are actually saying. As it happens I can think of music that suits her admirably - that first disc of the music of Hildegard of Bingen she did is pure enchantment. I also enjoy much of what she does in sacred pre Classical music. She obviously has a sound technique, otherwise she would not have had such a long career. You may not like her style of singing, but that doesn't make her a poor singer. No matter. As usual, you are intent on creating controversy and bad feeling. Really, I don't know why I bother replying.

[Harry]

She is a fine singer you say, but you can't think of any music which would suit her voice?? Perhaps she deserves her Damehood for 'general services' to the UK music scene, but certainly for her services to Handel, since you mention him, she deserves less than many other less well known singers who I can confirm do a much better job with the same music.

Purcell, Handel, Mozart, Bach, Dowland, Bingen, and so on!
I think you are a little crazy too Rod, if you would deny her excellence in the many recordings she made.
And most of them where bestsellers.
So, many people can think of music that suits her.
Only you are not one of them, well, that is your loss.

[Rod Corkin]

Really, I don't know why I bother replying.

Neither do I, really you can't say anything at GMG without all hell breaking lose. This is a suffocating forum.

[The new erato]

So, many people can think of music that suits her.

So can I.

Only you are not one of them, well, that is your loss.[/i]

And that is why I don't understand discussions like these, that's his loss, so what concern is that to us (and likewise to Rod; why bother that somebody enjoys Dame Emma?)?

[Rod Corkin]

(and likewise to Rod; why bother that somebody enjoys Dame Emma?)?

I responded validly to the original post and was prepared to leave it at that, then Harry gets into one of his usual paranoid attacks and yet another GMG topic descends into farce.

[Harry]

I responded validly to the original post and was prepared to leave it at that, then Harry gets into one of his usual paranoid attacks and yet another GMG topic descends into farce.

That was really funny mon general.

[DavidW]

Well of course you are well in line with your Super General on Mayhem, you must be, otherwise you will loose your stripes.
Walk the line huh?

When I look at Mayhem (I would post but every post reads like a treatise, I really don't have what it takes to contribute there ) I see the two disagreeing as much as they agree.  I think that you can trust Sorin to speak his mind.