Symphonic Prelude - not Mahler

[mahler10th]

Well, there is a piece of music out there called "Symphonic Prelude" by Mahler.  ALLEGEDLY by Mahler.
It was suggested by Mahler Researcher Paul Banks that the piece belonged to Mahler.  This was re-inforced here and there, but I have no idea why.  It doesn't sound like Mahler.  In the short work are Bruckner Horns, Bruckner tempo and general Brucknerish rising and falling scales and statements.  The original score has Krzyzanowskis name and Bruckners name on it in different places.
Has anyone heard it? (If you haven't but would like to, I'll get it posted somewhere for your edification).  Anyone who thinks this is a Mahler piece, imo, needs to re-examine the music.  It is clealy NOT Mahler, unless he was trying to imitate Bruckner which if this is the case, he did very well!

Anyone know of it and have an idea?  Or has the matter been finally settled and I'm missing something?

[kishnevi]

Well, there is a piece of music out there called "Symphonic Prelude" by Mahler.  ALLEGEDLY by Mahler.
It was suggested by Mahler Researcher Paul Banks that the piece belonged to Mahler.  This was re-inforced here and there, but I have no idea why.  It doesn't sound like Mahler.  In the short work are Bruckner Horns, Bruckner tempo and general Brucknerish rising and falling scales and statements.  The original score has Krzyzanowskis name and Bruckners name on it in different places.
Has anyone heard it? (If you haven't but would like to, I'll get it posted somewhere for your edification).  Anyone who thinks this is a Mahler piece, imo, needs to re-examine the music.  It is clealy NOT Mahler, unless he was trying to imitate Bruckner which if this is the case, he did very well!

Anyone know of it and have an idea?  Or has the matter been finally settled and I'm missing something?

Not only have I never heard this piece, I have never (to my knowledge) heard of it.
Bruckner's style has some fairly consistent features throughout his symphonies, enough that a talented student could probably compose something that sounded very much like Bruckner.   And Mahler was for a time a student of Bruckner.

And it's not implausible that Mahler wrote such a thing, at least for his own amusement/instruction--this is the composer who completed a Weber opera (Drei Pintos), reorchestrated some of Bach's pieces for a suite,  and revised Beethoven's Ninth.

[mahler10th]

I heard his Bach pieces live a couple of weeks ago, they were very nice, but they were not Bach.
And yes, Mahler did study Organ with Bruckner at the Vienna Conservatoire.
I wouldn't listen to any Beethoven that wasn't really Beethoven, and he should have kept his paws well away from that...Beethoven is one of the few untouchables for me.  Mahler too is an untouchable, though it's a pity he sometimes tampered with things which were not his own.

I am even arguing against the VPO who in 1948 agreed that it WAS a Mahler work.
Jan vac Steen and the NRPO played it in a concert somewhere in beautiful Holland in 1997, and it is fragments of that recording that I've put here for listeners to discern for themselves.

[mahler10th]

Here is another fragment.  The whole piece lasts less than 9 mins.

[Sergeant Rock]

Has anyone heard it?

This has been discussed before in the forum. Can't recall which thread. I checked the first volume of La Grange's biography and can find no mention of it in the appendix that lists and discusses his early works, including fragments and lost pieces. Perhaps the revised version (not yet available in English) has something about this "Symphonic Prelude." The work is attributed to Mahler on a Chandos recording conducted by Järvi but, not owning the CD, I have no idea what his reasoning is.

...this is the composer who completed a Weber opera (Drei Pintos), reorchestrated some of Bach's pieces for a suite,  and revised Beethoven's Ninth.

Not just the Ninth, but 5 through 9 plus several of the overtures. He revised Bruckner's Fifth and Schumann's symphonies too (there are good performances of those by Chailly). The Weber family asked Mahler to decipher the sketches and complete Die Drie Pintos. Others had failed (including Meyerbeer). That task made Mahler famous and gave him the urge to begin composing again. It helped ignite his career.

Sarge

[Lethevich]

The sheer uninterestingness of the piece should be enough to make it seem unlikely to be by Mahler or Bruckner. I heard the full thing a few times but can't remember a note. Whether it was an attempted pastiche by another composer (perhaps with a view to creating a fake "discovery"), or a serious attempt at composition, who knows. Even if it was by one of them (and Bruckner did write a few boring short orchestral works), the mediocrity of it should mean it still doesn't warrant more than one recording. Kind of like Wagner's crummy workbench chippings, I guess...

The work is attributed to Mahler on a Chandos recording conducted by Järvi but, not owning the CD, I have no idea what his reasoning is.

It made them money by doing so

[Sergeant Rock]

It made them money by doing so

Undoubtedly.

There's an article by Benjamin-Gunnar Cohrs about the piece linked from Berky's Bruckner site. He makes a good case that the work is Bruckner's:

"Only thanks to the German Kapellmeister Wolfgang Hiltl (Niedernhausen), the truth came to the light in 1985, when he published a lengthy study on the piece, which he had discovered in the archive of the Munich Philharmonic (Ein vergessenes, unerkanntes Werk Anton Bruckners?). Unfortunately this truth seems to be unwanted: His article was largely ignored by musicology; the "Mahlerization" was subsequently recorded (prominently by Neeme Jaervi for Chandos) and published by Sikorski, Berlin, where it remains in the catalogue as Mahler's piece, occasionally performed as such."

Complete article here: http://www.abruckner.com/Data/documents/symphonisches_praeludium_essay.pdf

Sarge

[mahler10th]

Lethe:  It made them money by doing so

Your assertion is bang on the money, Lethe.

On my first listen I concluded that someone had gone wrong somewhere in calling it Mahlers.  My second listen proved that the entire Classical Music Industry had gone wrong in attributing this to Mahler.  Then I read Benjamin-Gunnar Cohrs article (linked by Sarge up there) which prompted me to begin this post yesterday.
I assume one has to be filled with herbal substances to think this little piece is by Mahler.
I have never heard Krzyzanowskis music, also a pupil of Bruckner, and his name is on the Score somewhere...but Bruckners name was probably worth more, and Mahlers more still.

Dr. Paul Banks, I thank you for giving us Hans Rott more than you might think...but you really started tripping when you gave this to Mahler.     And shame on the alleged musical scholars et al who allowed this to happen.