Audiences hate modern classical music because their brains cannot cope

[Monsieur Croche]

Well the girl is 14 so maybe we could cut her a little slack, eh?

Actually, no. Works are already out there, performed, recorded, marketed, in her jazz genre as well as these rather lounge-music sensibility 'very like filmscore' pieces, and all that shows an innate and very strong inclination towards which has very little promise of any radical shift of musical direction.

Put it up, especially at a professional level, commercially promote it and sell it, and well, you're fair game for any and all comments.

I'm of a mind that none of these alleged prodigies, or even merely more precocious than usual young musicians, should be presented to a wide public, let alone the wider broadcasting via other media, until they are well into at least their very late teens, and actually can play / compose not only at an adult level of skill but with more than a small degree of adult emotional and interpretive depth being present as well. Before that, limited exposure, live performances, and no broadcasting or news articles may, just may, allow them to develop -- if they will -- into something more truly interesting than a freakishly talented kid who is being presented more like a performing monkey than being allowed to develop into a mature being.

So it is with -- in descending order from oldest to youngest -- Nathan Green, Emily Bear, and as of late, Alma Deutscher.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Really, Emily Bear's approach to music is in a world were creativity is unfortunately influenced by capitalism, business, marketing and popularity. It was never cool to be part of the 'cool kids' because human beings are capable of so much more....

Anyway, because of the world we live in, there will always be people like Emily Bear even if she pursued a path in classical music rather than in pop culture.

[Mirror Image]

Actually, no. Works are already out there, performed, recorded, marketed, in her jazz genre as well as these rather lounge-music sensibility 'very like filmscore' pieces, and all that shows an innate and very strong inclination towards which has very little promise of any radical shift of musical direction.

Put it up, especially at a professional level, promote it, sell it, and well, you're fair game for any and all comments.

I haven't heard a note of this girl's music but since she's 14 years old, I really have no interest either. She clearly hasn't matured and her future, regardless of what you think or feel, is really undetermined. Unless you can somehow see into the future, we should take what you say about this girl with a grain of salt.

[Monsieur Croche]

I haven't heard a note of this girl's music but since she's 14 years old, I really have no interest either. She clearly hasn't matured and her future, regardless of what you think or feel, is really undetermined. Unless you can somehow see into the future, we should take what you say about this girl with a grain of salt.

You actually make one point I have made, and am keen on: no matter what she is doing, I too, am not much interested at all in following the career of any fourteen year old prodigy. I'll wait, thank you, and if I pop my clogs before the youngster later delivers their first adult utterance, I'm just plum out of luck.

One never really knows, does not have a crystal ball, but as a former mildly precocious student, and later a teacher, I can tell you that many a pro can pretty well guestimate the basic nature, personal musical inclinations, and 'musical personality,' of a youngster ca. age fourteen and then quite cannily project into the future as to what these prodigies will later produce when they are nearer to or have attained a more adult age.

[Florestan]

More like two skeletons copulating on a tin roof!

That´s precisely what I meant.

[Elgarian]

"Extramusical narrative." I've never understood how a non-translatable bunch of notes, which can't even be transliterated convincingly either, can truly import much of anything extramusical.

And yet so many composers and listeners seem to think so. A large number of people associate (say) Sibelius's 1st symphony with snow, ice, cold wind, fir trees, and frozen landscapes, whether or not it's been suggested that any such link was intended. And there are very many titled pieces where the composer deliberately invites the listener to make 'extramusical narrative' associations: Enigma Variations, The Wood Nymph, Scheherazade, The Planets, to name but four. Then we have anecdotes like Elgar the conductor inviting his orchestra to 'play this like something you heard down by the river' - well, I don't need to go further. You get the idea.

I often detect a hint (sometimes more than a hint) that the bringing of such associations to music is somehow lowbrow, perhaps even an insult to the purity of the music. But why? Human beings are very very good at relating things that may seem unrelatable (whether as creators or receivers), and imaginatively combining different arts to make composite art. How else would we get songs, operas, illustrated books, ballet, (and indeed) movie soundtracks), etc.?

[Florestan]

And yet so many composers and listeners seem to think so. A large number of people associate (say) Sibelius's 1st symphony with snow, ice, cold wind, fir trees, and frozen landscapes, whether or not it's been suggested that any such link was intended. And there are very many titled pieces where the composer deliberately invites the listener to make 'extramusical narrative' associations: Enigma Variations, The Wood Nymph, Scheherazade, The Planets, to name but four. Then we have anecdotes like Elgar the conductor inviting his orchestra to 'play this like something you heard down by the river' - well, I don't need to go further. You get the idea.

I often detect a hint (sometimes more than a hint) that the bringing of such associations to music is somehow lowbrow, perhaps even an insult to the purity of the music. But why? Human beings are very very good at relating things that may seem unrelatable (whether as creators or receivers), and imaginatively combining different arts to make composite art. How else would we get songs, operas, illustrated books, ballet, (and indeed) movie soundtracks), etc.?

Excellent post.

[Karl Henning]

I often detect a hint (sometimes more than a hint) that the bringing of such associations to music is somehow lowbrow, perhaps even an insult to the purity of the music. But why? Human beings are very very good at relating things that may seem unrelatable (whether as creators or receivers), and imaginatively combining different arts to make composite art.

Yes, which is why I am happy to let the listener find his own relations (as it were) in (for instance) the 10-wind piece I'm finishing up (The Young Lady Holding a Phone in Her Teeth).  The background to some of my recent comments here includes my mild discomfort at having "[my] version of the story" requested of me;  and also a rather unnecessarily unpleasant meeting at which two fellow composers played at being inquisitors, because they adjudged my Thoreau in Concord Jail guilty of the impardonable sin of being "abstract."  I could practically hear the shade of Khrennikov whisper the noun Formalism.

[Madiel]

Then we have the likes of former prodigy Emily Bear, the PR surrounding her as a child making of her the umpteenth "Next Mozart," whose largest job and claim to fame as an adult to date has been composing for Disney films.... G-rated all the way.

Whereas, of course, 14-year-old Mozart was writing full-on adult music. [/irony]

[Karl Henning]

Whereas, of course, 14-year-old Mozart was writing full-on adult music. [/irony]

She has a Wikipedia article.  I do not.  Clearly her work is more important than mine.

[Madiel]

She has a Wikipedia article.  I do not.  Clearly her work is more important than mine.

Well, one could write whole essays on the similarities and differences between "important" and "noticed". But it's also a question of hindsight, and even hindsight is constantly changing. The world is full of things that weren't noticed at the time, and were very much noticed later. Similarly, the world is just as full of things that were of tremendous 'importance' at the time and which have been largely forgotten.

[Florestan]

Whereas, of course, 14-year-old Mozart was writing full-on adult music. [/irony]

Actually, he was.

[Karl Henning]

Well, one could write whole essays on the similarities and differences between "important" and "noticed". But it's also a question of hindsight, and even hindsight is constantly changing. The world is full of things that weren't noticed at the time, and were very much noticed later. Similarly, the world is just as full of things that were of tremendous 'importance' at the time and which have been largely forgotten.

Indeed.

Well, the Child Prodigy wing of Music Marketing flourishes, anyway.

[Madiel]

Actually, he was.

You spend a lot of time listening to works from the start of the Kochel catalogue, do you? Works with a K number less than 100? If so, you're pretty darn unusual. Most people spend a heck of a lot more time with the later stuff or with the music of other composers.

[Florestan]

You spend a lot of time listening to works from the start of the Kochel catalogue, do you? Works with a K number less than 100? If so, you're pretty darn unusual. Most people spend a heck of a lot more time with the later stuff or with the music of other composers.

First, I couldn't care less what most people do, and second, most people not listening to Mozart's juvenilia is hardly an indication about their quality (or lack thereof). His early violin sonatas, for instance, are as fine as any written by adult composers of the time. So is Galimathias Musicum. So is Bastien und Bastienne. So are the early church sonatas. So are the early piano concertos and symphonies. Don't forget that the kid was a genius.

[Madiel]

most people not listening to Mozart's juvenilia is hardly an indication about their quality (or lack thereof)

In terms of public perception, it's exactly what it is. Again, whole essays could be written about the difference between being important and being noticed, but in terms of what is paid attention to, Mozart's adult works leave his juvenilia for dust.

[Florestan]

In terms of public perception, it's exactly what it is. Again, whole essays could be written about the difference between being important and being noticed, but in terms of what is paid attention to, Mozart's adult works leave his juvenilia for dust.

Have you ever listened to them? Do you have a personal opinion on them based on actual listening, not on public perception?

[Madiel]

Have you ever listened to them? Do you have a personal opinion on them based on actual listening, not on public perception?

I don't see why my opinion would be more persuasive than either your own, or anyone else's. I've played some of the piano pieces. I don't have any recordings.

You're perfectly free to take the view that Mozart's works at the age of 14 are as good as any adult composers, but it's just that: a view. My own view is that Mozart's music continued to improve in quality pretty much throughout his entire career.

[Florestan]

I don't see why my opinion would be more persuasive than either your own, or anyone else's. I've played some of the piano pieces. I don't have any recordings.

I just wanted to know if you do have  an informed opinion on the topic, be it positive or negative, persuasive or not. It turns out you actually don't.

You're perfectly free to take the view that Mozart's works at the age of 14 are as good as any adult composers, but it's just that: a view.

(Any adult composer of the time when Mozart was 14). Of course it is just that, but at least it's based on listening, not on paying attention to public perception (pun intended).

My own view is that Mozart's music continued to improve in quality pretty much throughout his entire career.

I'm okay with that.

[Madiel]

I just wanted to know if you do have  an informed opinion on the topic, be it positive or negative, persuasive or not. It turns out you actually don't.

Actual experience playing music doesn't count. Duly noted.

Night.