La Taberna Maderna

Started by snyprrr, February 23, 2010, 08:17:57 PM

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petrarch

//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Pessoa

How do you make to insert a video? I only managed to copy the url.

petrarch

Quote from: Pessoa on November 19, 2013, 01:17:22 AM
How do you make to insert a video? I only managed to copy the url.

There is a thread with instructions, but in essence you need to

1. Change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VOSVVelpH0

to

http://www.youtube.com/v/6VOSVVelpH0

and 2. wrap it using the flash icon in the toolbar, resulting in (minus the spaces)

[ flash=480,360 ]  http://www.youtube.com/v/6VOSVVelpH0  [ / flash ]
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Pessoa


snyprrr

Can anyone report on the Tamayo Cycle? I'm practically ready to burst... need.... input.... mm...uh... yes, it's like constipation, HURRY!!

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 01:02:59 PM
Can anyone report on the Tamayo Cycle? I'm practically ready to burst... need.... input.... mm...uh... yes, it's like constipation, HURRY!!

Haven't heard the cycle, but I really hope Neos boxes the series up. Now, that would be nice.

amw

Neos charging reasonable prices for CDs would be nice too. Just sayin'.

Mirror Image

Quote from: amw on April 02, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
Neos charging reasonable prices for CDs would be nice too. Just sayin'.

Well sure. That would be nice as well. :)

petrarch

A lot of them are SACDs (all the Maderna series is) and those usually carry a premium. In any case, those 5 volumes are certainly worth it, and I didn't mind paying that premium at all... I would gladly pay double or triple for something I thoroughly enjoy, even if it means buying 2x or 3x less CDs; all things considered, it's a small difference for a big return.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

Quote from: amw on April 02, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
Neos charging reasonable prices for CDs would be nice too. Just sayin'.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!

snyprrr

Quote from: amw on April 02, 2014, 07:16:15 PM
Neos charging reasonable prices for CDs would be nice too. Just sayin'.

LOL! :laugh:

I'm going to try to make a play for all five,... gulp,... with things like Neos, you have to get them riiight when they come out- they'll go down to $12 plus Sh.,... but THEN, all of a sudden, they're OOP and astronomical. But, getting this Maderna Cycle is like competitive eating, gaaah, brutal. Hai- bonzai!!

snyprrr

Quote from: petrarch on April 03, 2014, 03:52:56 AM
A lot of them are SACDs (all the Maderna series is) and those usually carry a premium. In any case, those 5 volumes are certainly worth it, and I didn't mind paying that premium at all... I would gladly pay double or triple for something I thoroughly enjoy, even if it means buying 2x or 3x less CDs; all things considered, it's a small difference for a big return.

Do you have any of the Neos Cycle? Any thoughts?

petrarch

//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

snyprrr

Quote from: petrarch on April 27, 2014, 12:28:48 PM
Yes, all 5 now.

What pieces hit you? I've been having a head scratching time of it- I had no idea Maderna was like Stockhausen PLUS Cage!?!? I mean, a lot of it sounds, I don't want to say "mushy", but I definitely FEEL that improvisatory thing going on in most of it, which sometimes seems to rub me the wrong way.

All the pieces have tumult, and, if I ever thought that Maderna had a reputation for being "dreamy", well, those ideas got smashed up real bad whilst listening to these records. Piece after piece confounded me- What is he doing???- I ask myself-

Of course I've been comparing the three DG pieces, though it's hard because the Neos aren't Indexed. Besides the sonics, I'm not sure how much of a temperamental difference I hear between Tamayo and Sinopoli.

Please, give me an idea which pieces you would point out- I'm sitting here with a bunch of CDs I don't know what to do with. What about that totally oddball Flute Concerto? What is up with that? A very strange Fellini-esque thing? Maderna's earlier works are very boisterous- I mean, NONE of Maderna is 'safe' in that way that you better not pre-judge it.

All these pieces are just so loose high and free- I don't know if I can handle it! It seems Maderna is THE most Damstadrian Darmstadter that ever Darmstadted! He really puts everything into the pot.

Yea, I need a Maderna buddy on this one, haha! Hold my hand!!

I can't even pick a piece out that really really stands out for me yet. Of course the Violin Concerto is sweet with Zehetmair... are you familiar with the Stradivarius disc conducted by Gorli with the Violin Concerto and 'Grande Aulodia'? How would that compare to the Neos?

That Stradivarius Cycle is outrageously confusing!! Have any of those? Any Neos comparisons?


Frankly, Maderna is a Composer I can actually say I don't really like- based on what I've been hearing- but I think that just me, and I need to... I think I'll come around. There ARE a lot of violent outbursts in Maderna, though, making a lot of these pieces heavy going. I just can't believe I'm saying these things! Maderna? Heavy going? Who knew?

Anyhow, if you feel like chatting about the pieces, I'm here.

petrarch

Start with, say, Aria. Much more "nimble" and "smooth" than, say, Stockhausen's vocal works (to use your comparison). Listen to it for what it is, not what you expected it to be.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

petrarch

Quote from: snyprrr on April 27, 2014, 03:20:49 PM
I mean, a lot of it sounds, I don't want to say "mushy", but I definitely FEEL that improvisatory thing going on in most of it, which sometimes seems to rub me the wrong way.

(...)

All these pieces are just so loose high and free- I don't know if I can handle it! It seems Maderna is THE most Damstadrian Darmstadter that ever Darmstadted! He really puts everything into the pot.

(...)

Frankly, Maderna is a Composer I can actually say I don't really like- based on what I've been hearing- but I think that just me, and I need to... I think I'll come around. There ARE a lot of violent outbursts in Maderna, though, making a lot of these pieces heavy going. I just can't believe I'm saying these things! Maderna? Heavy going? Who knew?

I don't think Maderna is heavy at all, outbursts and violence notwithstanding. On the contrary, I think he has a lightness of touch and of filigree texture that makes him ... dreamy, yes, in many places (thinking e.g. of Quadrivium here). It is that same lightness that perhaps gives you the feeling that it is improvisatory, as it flows so naturally and so smoothly.

Your earlier comparison with Stockhausen reminded me of something Feldman said to him: "Leave the notes alone, Karlheinz!" At least Maderna can give you the illusion that he left the notes alone and didn't tweak them too much.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

not edward

Quote from: petrarch on April 27, 2014, 05:30:30 PM
I don't think Maderna is heavy at all, outbursts and violence notwithstanding. On the contrary, I think he has a lightness of touch and of filigree texture that makes him ... dreamy, yes, in many places (thinking e.g. of Quadrivium here). It is that same lightness that perhaps gives you the feeling that it is improvisatory, as it flows so naturally and so smoothly.
Agreed here; there's always something appealing about the surface textures in Maderna. One might say his music always sounds Italian, but in truth his mature music sounds like Maderna, and nobody else. It has sense of freedom (in the improvisatory sense) that I don't usually hear in Dallapiccola, Nono or Berio.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

snyprrr

Quote from: petrarch on April 27, 2014, 05:30:30 PM
I don't think Maderna is heavy at all, outbursts and violence notwithstanding. On the contrary, I think he has a lightness of touch and of filigree texture that makes him ... dreamy, yes, in many places (thinking e.g. of Quadrivium here). It is that same lightness that perhaps gives you the feeling that it is improvisatory, as it flows so naturally and so smoothly.

Your earlier comparison with Stockhausen reminded me of something Feldman said to him: "Leave the notes alone, Karlheinz!" At least Maderna can give you the illusion that he left the notes alone and didn't tweak them too much.

Quote from: edward on April 27, 2014, 06:24:13 PM
Agreed here; there's always something appealing about the surface textures in Maderna. One might say his music always sounds Italian, but in truth his mature music sounds like Maderna, and nobody else. It has sense of freedom (in the improvisatory sense) that I don't usually hear in Dallapiccola, Nono or Berio.

The one thing I have noticed is that Maderna makes me feel exactly like Donatoni. Perhaps it is that they don't adhere to my expectations. But, I think Donatoni, not KHS, is the closest sounding ("feeling") to Maderna?

'Aria' is shipping now!

Perhaps part of the issue I'm having is with these recordings, which are so open and airy and somewhat ballsy. They definite accentuate the "dangerous" aspects- some of the brass outburst are pretty loud!

I guess I just wasn't expecting OUTBURSTS from Maderna, and there are plenty of them! I just don't remember the Oboe Concertos giving me the same feeling, but then, that Philips recording is a different beast all together.

You mentioned 'Quadrivium'. What I am noticing- let's say Xenakis wrote 'Quadrivium': the bits would all be mathematically related- the piece might sound more like the ending of 'Persephassa'- but, with Maderna, all the bits have this unrelated feel in that I hear HUMANS playing the instruments whereas with Xenakis I hear Science playing the music (through hands). So, in 'Quadrivium', I hear the percussionists splishing and splashing, but it sounds all so- I don't want to say 'jazzy', but that's really the "feeling" I get. And I'm not sure how I feel about 'jazzy'.

Anyhow, I ordered another CD after whining to you, so, my dedication shouldn't be questioned, haha! I AM trying here. (I had better, huh?, seeing as I spent my left nut on this Cycle!)


And what's up with that manic Flute Concerto of 8 minutes? (I did hear Vol.2 on YT first)

I know Maderna isn't really a 'quotation' guy, but, is there some affinity with BA Zimmermann in his 'universality'?

Well, anyway, I'll keep at it!

thanks

snyprrr

Well, so, I've discovered that it is Nono, Maderna, and Donatoni that I have this very special attitude problem with, haha! It's as if Cage and Stockhausen had a baby...

snyprrr

Quote from: petrarch on April 27, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
Start with, say, Aria. Much more "nimble" and "smooth" than, say, Stockhausen's vocal works (to use your comparison). Listen to it for what it is, not what you expected it to be.

'Aria' hates my speakers! I'm finding digital distortion early on, when the singer really cuts loose for a moment. Do you hear anything in this one?

Also, in 'Quadrivium', within the first few minutes, the first entry of the timpani hit gives me some distortion for a moment. What's up? These recordings are so wide open- they're the only recording that have ever given these (normal) speakers problems. And that guitar Donatoni disc on Strad. (track 2 right off the bat)


Otherwise, I've been slowly digesting this Maderna Cycle,- he sure knows how to use a gong!- but his style seems so amorphous to me at times. I don't know, maybe it's the wide open recordings (I really have to turn the sound down to hear these correctly)? Maybe I just don't like the improvised sound in written music? Either way, it's better than jazz, but I don't even know what that means!

Much of Maderna seems to start of with a BigBang and then, serially, peters out by the end, like some celestial phenomenon, though, without the visionary melodies and harmonies I've come to associate with the visionary sound. Here, Maderna seems happy just to 'present' things as they are occurring? I don't know- Maderna sure is challenging my assumptions, and I'm giving him a lot of airtime, but I just don't know what the point of it all is (for some reason I always know what the point with, say, Xenakis, is- but here, no).

I don't even find the spectrum of color that Maderna invokes all that compelling, even though he's a master of orchestrating things like chimes and guitars/mandolins, and gongs. His string work seems pretty typical to me, all depressing serialist strings sounding Expressionistic is outbursts. The brass are usually loud and braying. Then, long periods where I have to turn the volume up; then, quickly, I have to turn it down. Maderna is making me work here, and I'm not sure how well I'm going along with it.

Anyhow.