Author Topic: Bach English Suites on piano  (Read 19209 times)

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Offline Expresso

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2010, 10:45:54 AM »
XB that looks good, I might buy that in the future. :)

I have ordered Perahia for now.

About Gould, I didn't want him because even though I love his Goldberg Variations I tired of his French Suites, and I suspect the same would happen with the English Suites.  He is hit and miss with me, sorry. :)

Give Gould a chance, he's really good in these Suites.

His French suites might be hit and miss, but his English ones contain some of his best performances in my opinion.

Of course Perahia is an excellent choice too. You wont regret it  ;)

Bulldog

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2010, 12:26:01 PM »
Give Gould a chance, he's really good in these Suites.

His French suites might be hit and miss, but his English ones contain some of his best performances in my opinion.

Of course Perahia is an excellent choice too. You wont regret it  ;)

For piano versions, I'd also go with Gould and Perahia, along with Rubsam.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2010, 04:44:52 AM »
For piano versions, I'd also go with Gould and Perahia, along with Rubsam.

Which Rübsam? The Bayer or the Naxos?
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Bulldog

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2010, 05:53:34 AM »
Which Rübsam? The Bayer or the Naxos?

The Naxos is the one I know.

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2010, 10:27:30 PM »
If they release the Rubsam on LP, I can play it at 78rpm and it will still be slower than any other interpretation.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2010, 10:34:45 PM »
Rusbaum is too agogically hesitant -- I find that annoying. It makes me want to reach for the travel sickness pills.

Why do they do that, these hip dudes?

On the plus side, he tells a good story, and he has a lovely touch, and the music is beautifully (and thoroughly) ornamented,

I am very glad to own the Naxos CDs and I think his Bach is amongst the best on piano -- French and English suites esp.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 12:40:41 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Verena

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2010, 11:05:01 AM »
Rusbaum is too agogically hesitant -- I find that annoying. It makes me want to reach for the travel sickness pills.


Oh yes, I have the same feeling when I listen to him  :(

Bulldog

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2010, 11:24:20 AM »
Rusbaum is too agogically hesitant -- I find that annoying. It makes me want to reach for the travel sickness pills.

Why do they do that, these hip dudes?

The use of agogic devices is not uncommon among Bach keyboardists.  I think they do it in the quest for a more interesting and emotionally rich interpretation.  Some artists succeed splendidly; others can make one dizzy.  Rubsam doesn't make me dizzy.

Marc

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2010, 01:33:01 PM »
Rusbaum is too agogically hesitant -- I find that annoying. It makes me want to reach for the travel sickness pills.

Why do they do that, these hip dudes?
I guess Rusbaum = Rübsam?

AFAIK, the young Rübsam was certainly HIP-influenced.
But during those years he certainly wasn't "agogically hesitant".

Later on he developed a different syle.
I only have his organ recordings of Bach, but his Naxos recordings are quite unique.

For the other keyboard works he played a piano in Bach. So I wouldn't call him a 'HIP dude'.

The comments in this thread make me curious about his piano recordings. I will probably try one or two discs in the future.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2010, 02:51:24 PM »
I only have his organ recordings of Bach, but his Naxos recordings are quite unique.

His Philips Bach organ integral was certainly also unique for its time.

The comments in this thread make me curious about his piano recordings. I will probably try one or two discs in the future.
I suggest that you try the Partitas, which are the most successful of his piano recordings. Strange  that his flexible style is less well suited for the Toccatas (manualiter) and the Inventions/Sinfonias,
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 02:52:57 PM by premont »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2010, 08:35:05 AM »
.

For the other keyboard works he played a piano in Bach. So I wouldn't call him a 'HIP dude'.



Indeed   :).
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Marc

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2010, 10:43:18 AM »
Rübsam is more like a "Double Dude", by visiting all ends of the performer's spectrum, or even, by doing so, a "Dude on his own". ;)

Premont, thanks for the advice.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2010, 11:14:18 AM »
His Philips Bach organ integral was certainly also unique for its time.
I suggest that you try the Partitas, which are the most successful of his piano recordings. Strange  that his flexible style is less well suited for the Toccatas (manualiter) and the Inventions/Sinfonias,

Yet somehow I am more in love with his Suites, English and French.

Maybe it's just that the competition is so strong in Partita 1, 4 and 6 that I can't imagine frequently returning to Ruebsam's. That's rather a vulgar way to look it at of course  . . .

Really creative readings of the suites on piano -- well there are some (have you heard the 2nd French suite from Richter in Hungary?) But I feel there are less of them that the Partitas.

Haven't heard his Toccatas or Inventions.

I just listened to his 4th Partita in fact -- he seems to me completely sui generis -- unlike anyone else I know. But I'm no Bach expert.

Even if don't  appreciate what he does as much as others in the Partitas, I can certainly  hear there's something to respect there. He's an acquaintance I'm  looking  forward to developing.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 11:21:42 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2010, 02:19:18 PM »
Yet somehow I am more in love with his Suites, English and French.

So was I, but with repeated listening to the Partitas they grew on me.

Really creative readings of the suites on piano -- well there are some (have you heard the 2nd French suite from Richter in Hungary?) But I feel there are less of them that the Partitas.

Generally I do not listen to piano renderings of harpsichord music  (an exception is parts of The WTC and The AoF, which in some inexplainable way are rather well suited for almost any keyboard instrument), so I haven´t got but a sporadic knowledge of Bach piano recordings.  From S. Richter I know two WTC´s  and one of the 3. English suite (old Melodya release) but not the French suites, and from what I know I would call his style more efficient than creative, but I know that he was rather variable especially at recitals.

I just listened to his (= Rübsam´s) 4th Partita in fact -- he seems to me completely sui generis -- unlike anyone else I know. But I'm no Bach expert.

What appeals to me (in Rübsam´s Bach piano interpretations) is his creative thinking combined with a subtle kind of poetry, and he never becomes overtly romantic (like Sokolov or Koroliov) or distressing motorical-mechanical (like Gould or Pogorelic). Rübsam´s point of departure concerning his piano technic seems to be the clavichord rather than the piano.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2010, 11:36:02 PM »
Rübsam´s point of departure concerning his piano technic seems to be the clavichord rather than the piano.

Thank you for that -- that's given me something to think about :)

Someone who posts here (sorry -- I forget who), talks about Bach's playing keyboard music as if to tell a story. Valuable idea. I think Rübsam is an excellent story teller.

I do find the hesitations disorienting though, in the courante and aria of Partita 4 for example. I'm looking forward to getting my sea legs.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 11:38:58 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2011, 08:32:51 AM »
Rübsam´s point of departure concerning his piano technic seems to be the clavichord rather than the piano.

I listened to English Suite 6 and your comment came back to mind. Very perceptive -- the style is so quiet and intimate and almost confidential.

I also listened to Walcha's noble, masculine, forceful, emtionally rich and varied harpsichord -- which I love just as much. But Walcha and Rubsam don't seem to have much  in common besides the fact that they are playing a score by Bach.

In Walcha's hands it's the range of feeling that is so extraordinary. You know that thing that Mahler said about the symphony containing the world -- well I think that Walcha's English Suite 6 contains the world. This is one of my favourite  Bach recordings, especially in the Gavottes and (even more especially) the Gigue.

The Walcha English Suites are hard to find. I have uploaded them onto symphonyshare.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 01:16:57 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2011, 04:20:00 PM »
But Walcha and Rubsam don't seem to have much  in common besides the fact that they are playing a score by Bach.


But I think it is a great experience to listen to both of them. Surprisingly Rübsam was an organ pupil of Walcha during four years, and Bach´s music must have had a central position in that relation.

Quote from: Mandryka
In Walcha's hands it's the range of feeling that is so extraordinary. You know that thing that Mahler said about the symphony containing the world -- well I think that Walcha's English Suite 6 contains the world. This is one of my favourite  Bach recordings, especially in the Gavottes and (even more especially) the Gigue.

I still remember when I fifteen years old heard Walcha´s recording of the sixth Partita by chance in a local broadcast.  I had never heard of Walcha by then and knew only a small fraction of Bach´s keyboard works, but Walcha´s  direct and energy-loaden style made such a deep and lasting impression on me, that I during the next few years used almost all my sparse pocket money to acquire all Walcha´s harpsichord recordings, which were available on LP in these days. These were (other than Münchinger´s Brandenburg recordings) the first Bach recordings I owned.

However I think it is Bach´s music which contains the world, Walcha being the loyal servant.

Quote from: Mandryka
The Walcha English Suites are hard to find.

The last parts of Walcha´s EMI harpsichord recordings were recorded 1962, so EMI´s copyright will end soon - at least in Europe. I hope, that Membran or some similar label will release a box editon of the complete recordings by then.
It's better to act today than to regret tomorrow.
(Mette Frederiksen)

adrian1805

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2011, 03:24:54 PM »
Overall the best is Murray Perahia. For individual suites I recommend:

Suites 1,5,6 : Perahia
Suite 2 : Argerich
Suite 3: Pires
Suite 4: Hewitt

but Perahia is superb in all of them.
On the other hand Gould´s performance of these pieces is the worst I´ve ever heard.

Bulldog

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2011, 03:25:46 PM »
Overall the best is Murray Perahia. For individual suites I recommend:

Suites 1,5,6 : Perahia
Suite 2 : Argerich
Suite 3: Pires
Suite 4: Hewitt

but Perahia is superb in all of them.
On the other hand Gould´s performance of these pieces is the worst I´ve ever heard.

I think highly of both the Perahia and Gould sets.  If pressed, I'd go with the Gould; Perahia is quite mainstream.

Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach English Suites on piano
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2011, 05:01:42 PM »
Looking for a recording of the Bach English Suites on piano and is played transparently without excessive ornamentation, and not too fast, but I'm not interested in Gould.  Anyone know of anything that would fit the bill?

btw I've already searched and can't find much discussion of this topic on the past.  But if you know of something I overlooked, by all means share with me the link.

I have owned this CD by Pogo for over a decade and truly enjoy it.  It may now be OOP though ...