Hugo's Wolf Den

[snyprrr]

I can't believe I'm finding all these Threadless Composers!?!

All I know is that I really took to Wolf's formidable String Quartet of 1884. I put it in the Busoni, Reger, Schoenberg camp of overheated hothouse flowers, totally sucked into it's own world.  I first heard the LaSalle, which seem to highlight the disturbed, almost feral forest world, with woody, scratching tone, like a spider bite hallucination. I'm considering the Auryn on CPO (how could that be bad??), though, I wish the Artis on Accord didn't cost $40.

Otherwise, I'm pretty clueless on Wolf. I wonder if any of his songs would convert a lieder infidel? I'm already willing to try some Schoeck. We'll see.

Anyone?

[vers la flamme]

ONE post for Hugo Wolf?!

I have heard (most of) the Spanisches Liederbuch, and only once, but I'm wondering what else is worth hearing.

[Mandryka]

Above all the Italianisches liederbuch. Also the Eichendorff and Mörike lieder


When I was a kid I heard Schwarzkopf singing Kennst du das land on record, the 1956 Carnegie Hall recital with George Reeves, and I was bowled over by the way she took the line Im dunklen Laub die Gold-Orangen glühn. It was a transformative experience, I kind of never knew music could be like that. I don't say you'll have the same reaction!

Some discussion from a long time ago with me and the (very much missed - hope they're  well) mjwal and ccar here

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16147.msg440045.html#msg440045

Also search rmcr for a recent discussion with me and gggg

[Jo498]

I don't know them well enough (despite having a comprehensive? almost complete box with Fi-Di, incl. the tone poems) but I usually prefer the other lieder to the Spanish/Italian songbooks. But for whatever reason I never really got into Wolf's huge lieder oeuvre.
In Germany/Austria Wolf used to be held as the 3rd great lieder composer after Schubert and Schumann.
I have never heard his opera (+fragment) and don't remember the tone poem Penthesilea.
I am rather fond of the string quartet, an uneven but extremely ambitious work that seems like a mix of late Beethoven and middle (Lohengrin prelude) Wagner etc.

[Florestan]

ONE post for Hugo Wolf?!

Well, the Lied as a genre isn't exactly the rage on GMG, is it?

I have heard (most of) the Spanisches Liederbuch, and only once, but I'm wondering what else is worth hearing.

This is my go to recording for the SL:



Also worth your time:



However (to quote a living classic), however, if you want a fairly extensive and consistently qualitative traversal of his Lieder, this set is hard to beat:



For an enthusiastic review and full track listing, click below.

it is possible to shop around and get a fine Wolf collection, but why spend so much more money and time when this box is here, tailor-made for all but the most discriminating and for most readers this can very well be the only Wolf discs they will ever need.

Over time I found Wolf's music highly rewarding if taken in small doses (which is actually how Lieder should be taken anyway; no composer of Lieder ever contemplated 25 of them being sung in a row --- even cycles were treated rather flexibly by singers back then). Prolonged exposure may result in aural fatigue and low spirits.

This essay may also be of some interest:

Eric Sams - The Literary Sources of Hugo Wolf's String Quartets

[vers la flamme]

Well, the Lied as a genre isn't exactly the rage on GMG, is it? [/img]

No, but surely SOME people must like them. You and me like them, at least, or at least you are usually one of the few to answer my Lieder questions 

Thank you for the recommendations. I have the DFD/Schwarzkopf/Gerald Moore recording of the Spanish. I want to hear the Italian songs as well as the Eichendorff songs, being very interested in Eichendorff. Maybe I'll look for the Hyperion.

[Jo498]

There is a single disc anthology of Mörike lieder on DG with Fi-Di and none other than Sviatoslav Richter playing the piano.
A good and hopefully easily available recording of the quartet (+ fillers, 2 quartet movements) is Auryn on cpo.

[Florestan]

surely SOME people must like them. You and me like them, at least, or at least you are usually one of the few to answer my Lieder questions 

In my experience, vocal music in general is a sort of Cinderella of classical music forums, people are mostly into (Late Romantic) symphonies and orchestral music --- and the Lied/Art Song genre is the Cinderella of vocal music. 

Why this is so I won't venture to speculate, although I have a theory.

Anyway, there is also a very good 6-disc Dieskau / Barenboim DG box which contains the Eichendorff-Lieder. They (the EL, I mean) are quite possibly my favorite of them all.

[Mandryka]

Vocal music is a major strength of talk classical and autour de la musique classique.

@vers la flamme Try different styles. Things have moved on from FiDi.

[San Antone]

In my experience, vocal music in general is a sort of Cinderella of classical music forums, people are mostly into (Late Romantic) symphonies and orchestral music --- and the Lied/Art Song genre is the Cinderella of vocal music.

75% (maybe more) of my listening is of some form of vocal music: lieder, opera, or choral works.  For me, vocal music is central to my experience of music, any genre.  It is my belief that vocal music was the first manner in which man made music, with the development of instrumental music (aside from drumming) coming much later. 

A solo voice singing melody (also monophonic chant sung chorally) will imply harmonies and is sufficient on its own without need for accompaniment - and is often the most pleasing music for me.

Regarding the thread topic, i.e. Hugo Wolf, I agree the DFD box is an excellent collection. Wolf's lieder along with Schubert, Schumann, and Brahms, comprise the four great men of German song.  There are others, for sure, but these four, for me, did the most with the form.

[Mandryka]

I just found this one on youtube, this morning. For me Ziezek is a wonderful Wolf singer -- it's what I've always been looking for.  She has another Wolf CD, miscellaneous songs, which I've ordered.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kqxxQRhkP4&t=723s&ab_channel=Operazaileoperazaile

Andreas Schmidt seems perfectly able to sing the music, and the piano players seem pretty alert too.  A nice little discovery! 

[Florestan]

75% (maybe more) of my listening is of some form of vocal music: lieder, opera, or choral works.

As of late, this has been my case, too.

For me, vocal music is central to my experience of music, any genre.  It is my belief that vocal music was the first manner in which man made music, with the development of instrumental music (aside from drumming) coming much later.

I think this is not even a question of belief, but an established fact.

Wolf's lieder along with Schubert, Schumann, and Brahms, comprise the four great men of German song.  There are others, for sure, but these four, for me, did the most with the form.

Agreed, with Mendelssohn and Loewe coming a close second.

[Florestan]

Vocal music is a major strength of talk classical

You think? There are a few members there who are passionate and knowledgeable about vocal music but many, if not most, of the members profess open (and plainly uninformed, if not downright ignorant) disdain for Italian opera, particularly Bel Canto, and a cultish devotion to Beethoven's symphonic output which they exalt above everything else --- and that was more than enough to put me off TC.

[Franco_Manitobain]

You think? There are a few members there who are passionate and knowledgeable about vocal music but many, if not most, of the members profess open (and plainly uninformed, if not downright ignorant) disdain for Italian opera, particularly Bel Canto, and a cultish devotion to Beethoven's symphonic output which they exalt above everything else --- and that was more than enough to put me off TC.

Not sure how long ago that was Andrei, but I don't see that as being the case presently?

[Florestan]

Not sure how long ago that was Andrei, but I don't see that as being the case presently?

Admittedly it was quite a long time ago, Ray. I have never been an active member, just lurking in the corner for some time --- what I saw back then did not entice me to become active, or follow their evolution. It's been years since I haven't checked TC for updates.

[Mandryka]

I think @Florestan there are some regulars there who are really knowledgeable and thoughtful about opera and song, though admittedly I've never discussed bel canto with them.


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/round-2-recondita-armonia-dvorsky-kozub.84877/


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/webers-oberon.14157/


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/opera-pictures.64947/

https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/jessye-norman-opinions.42742/

[Florestan]

I think @Florestan there are some regulars there who are really knowledgeable and thoughtful about opera and song, though admittedly I've never discussed bel canto with them.


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/round-2-recondita-armonia-dvorsky-kozub.84877/


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/webers-oberon.14157/


https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/opera-pictures.64947/

https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/jessye-norman-opinions.42742/

Thank you, @Mandryka , I will surely check out those links.

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim that everyone should like Bel Canto (or Lieder / Art Songs, for that matter), that would be the top of folly from me. But to reject and belittle those genres for no other reason that they are not Eroica or The Ninth strikes me as the top of intellectual and aesthetical laziness.

But I digress. Back to Wolf.

[vers la flamme]

Vocal music is a major strength of talk classical and autour de la musique classique.

@vers la flamme Try different styles. Things have moved on from FiDi.

Tell me who, man, and I will. I don't know this stuff well enough.

[Mandryka]

Tell me who, man, and I will. I don't know this stuff well enough.

Have a look here

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/J325g4IdvV8/m/DAlvljPNAgAJ

The last thing I really enjoyed was the Italian Songbook with Carolyn Sampson,. and Pregardien's Eichendorff songs.

[Mandryka]

Here's Elasabeth Rethberg

https://open.spotify.com/track/4uGB2HXSsg6opxAd1ESnSi