Great vs. Favorite

[jowcol]

Which is why I'm usually more interested in what people like than in what they dislike. I mean, if I like a composer or artist and someone says that he or she is no good I merely shrug my shoulders and their opinion has zero impact on me in terms of changing my mind. If however someone talks with sincere passion for composers or artists I had previously ignored or hadn't known about I might check them out and add some of their music to my collection. That has in fact happened a number of times, but nobody has ever changed my mind about someone I like.

Very insightful post.  I hadn't looked at it this way before, but now that I have, I think this is a very accurate observation.

[Scarpia]

Which is why I'm usually more interested in what people like than in what they dislike. I mean, if I like a composer or artist and someone says that he or she is no good I merely shrug my shoulders and their opinion has zero impact on me in terms of changing my mind. If however someone talks with sincere passion for composers or artists I had previously ignored or hadn't known about I might check them out and add some of their music to my collection. That has in fact happened a number of times, but nobody has ever changed my mind about someone I like.

I don't agree.  People's likes are interesting because you can get a clue as to what you might should be paying attention to if you don't 'get' the piece.  But expressions of dislike (if they are not the sort of unequivocal renunciation that we seem to have too much of around ere lately) are likewise a challenge to people who love the piece to articulate what it is about the music that they find compelling.  This can lead to very interesting discussions.

[jowcol]

But how can we measure objectively something that happens primarily in the human mind and soul, since the mind and soul of each human is different in shape and quality from that of every other human?  We can only measure what humans report about such potentially transformative experiences as, say, a first hearing of Beethoven's Ninth or Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire or even John Coltrane's Giant Steps.  That, in fact, may be the only possible objective measure of musical greatness: how many people report being transformed by such music, and their descriptions of how greatly and deeply they've been transformed.  If a great number of a composer's works have such transformative power, we can say s/he's a "great composer."  If even one has it (I'm thinking of Holst's The Planets), then s/he is still "a great composer."

And my favorites tend to be the works that have most deeply transformed me.  At the first stage of my development as a "classic freak" , it was Bach's organ music and Brandenburg Concertos; a little later it was the Beethoven symphonies, then Mahler's, then--gradually--Varèse's works and others of the modernist school.  (I'm skipping a lot of transformations, but you get my point. )  Most recently it was Morton Feldman's "Piano and String Quartet." (Gotta hear that again! )  Each of these has opened its own space in my mind and spirit, a space that only it can fill.  That's why I call them both "great" and "favorite."  This is why I so passionately defend composers like Mahler, Schoenberg and Varèse; in this small sense, they're part of me now.  They may not be great for anyone else, and that's fine with me; yet if others report being transformed by them, we have a shared experience that draws us into friendship--the deeper the transformation, the deeper our friendship, and friendship is a great thing too.

Word!

I've had similar transformations to Hindustani Music, Coltrane, West Side Blues, and Piazzolla, to name a few.  ALthough Jo has described this more eloquently, I have previously tried to describe this as a type of music that "scratches an itch I never knew I had".

Also, in some cases, it's a matter of when you hear it, and what your needs are.  There was a lot of music that did not move me the first couple of times I experienced it-- but later, suddenly the walls came tumbling down.... 

[Teresa]

of course, but I find it really sad that beginners who come to this site are told what they should hear.
I remember a new member saying he loved the new world Sy and The 4 seasons. He was answered in a humiliating way that it was only music for neophytes.

That is truly sad 

Personally I feel Dvorak's New World Symphony is a great entry way into the world of classical music.

A lot of great posts so far on the differences between Great and Favorite. 

For me that which is great is emotionally moving on the highest level and technically of the highest standard.

I consider Mahler a great composer.  Mahler himself famously proclaimed: "A symphony must be like the world. It must contain everything." I believe that's part of the secret that makes his symphonies so great, they contain the full range of human emotions from the deepest despair to the most exuberant joy.

However I love a lot of music that is NOT great.  A good example is the little ditties of Leroy Anderson such as The Typewriter, Pizzicato Polka and others.  I believe Leroy Anderson is only a competent composer but I sure love his music. 

Another example would be composers whose music I do not like such as Schumann and Schubert who I believe are excellent composers. 

[karlhenning]

Personally I feel Dvorak's New World Symphony is a great entry way into the world of classical music.

For many, it is.

Classical music repeatedly proves the old truism: There's more ways into the woods than one.  For some of us, the fantastic entrée to classical music is the wonderful atonal literature.

It would be a dull world if we all thought the same.

[Franco]

I can feel safe in saying that I never listen to anything because it is great.  I actually don't care for much rightly considered great music (Mahler, Wagner, Strauss) and frankly don't place any importance on whether a composer is condered great by the majority of critics.

The only music I listen to repeatedly (I will listen to anything once) is the music that touches me somehow, and becomes a favorite.

This is not to say that I think Mahler, Wagner and Strauss are not great, they are great - it is just that I don't listen to music because I think it is great, I listen to enjoy it.

[jochanaan]

I can feel safe in saying that I never listen to anything because it is great.  I actually don't care for much rightly considered great music (Mahler, Wagner, Strauss) and frankly don't place any importance on whether a composer is condered great by the majority of critics.

The only music I listen to repeatedly (I will listen to anything once) is the music that touches me somehow, and becomes a favorite.

In other words, music that's great for you.

This is not to say that I think Mahler, Wagner and Strauss are not great, they are great - it is just that I don't listen to music because I think it is great, I listen to enjoy it.

Critics that I don't know don't influence my decisions.  But friends I respect do.  If, for example, Karl recommends something, I try to get it if I can (except that I have no money for CDs or scores now ); but the reviewers for Stereo Review or Amazon have no influence on me--mostly because I don't read them.

[Guido]

Which is why I'm usually more interested in what people like than in what they dislike. I mean, if I like a composer or artist and someone says that he or she is no good I merely shrug my shoulders and their opinion has zero impact on me in terms of changing my mind. If however someone talks with sincere passion for composers or artists I had previously ignored or hadn't known about I might check them out and add some of their music to my collection. That has in fact happened a number of times, but nobody has ever changed my mind about someone I like.

Yes! I concur wholeheartedly!

It's also why I am very wary of dismissing composers, especially those which are popular with lots of people. Usually I come here to ask why people like a composer and try and goad some passionate reactions for the composer out of them! If non eare forthcoming I feel a bit safer moving on for the time being.

Ultimately, one has to trust one's instincts though of course!