The Romantics in Period Performances

Started by Que, April 09, 2007, 07:07:54 AM

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rubio

Any comments on this Festetics recording?

"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

FideLeo

Quote from: rubio on March 04, 2008, 08:48:33 AM
Any comments on this Festetics recording?



Que will be able to talk about this particular one more, but I find their recording of the Quintet in C a truly moving experience.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Que

#102
Quote from: rubio on March 04, 2008, 08:48:33 AM
Any comments on this Festetics recording?



Full disclosure: I got this entirely by accident, thinking I was ordering vol. 4 of the Haydn cycle.
And I think it's terrific, never heard anything like it. It's the treatment of rhythms that is so special - it all makes so much more sense. Although the rest of their Schubert SQ's recordings has vanished - get this disc anyway! :)

Q

PS I would get the recording of the string quintet that FL recommended as well.

Que

OOOhhhh!  :) :)

Quote from: traverso on May 30, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

The new MdG series of Brahms early piano works (performer Hardy Rittner) starts with a recording of sonata 2 and ballads and one set of variations played on a 1851 JB Streicher instrument.  Hopefully the series will involve other instruments as it progresses.



Q

Que

#104


Sonata in C minor D958; Zwei Scherzi D593; Sonata in C major Reliquie D840;
Sonata in A major D959; Sonata in A minor D537
ET'CETERA KTC 1330


I guess in this case the choice of instrument will be a decisive factor for prospective buyers. Vermeulen uses a Viennese fortepiano from 1826 by Nannette Streicher, which seems to me the ultimate in bright, lean, and penetrating sound in fortepianos, with a bell-like upper register. You'll love it (maybe after getting used to it) or you'll hate it, in which case the sound is more likely to be described as tinny, "clanging" and brittle.... ::) This gives rather different results than the earlier recordings Vermeulen made for Vanguard, playing a Tröndlin with a generously warm and mellow sound.
To top off the sound of the instrument, the description of lean and penetrating also fits the performance. This is the perfect anti-thesis of meandering, "candlelight" Schubert: very straight forward and driven, yet unforced and natural. Clearly a case in which the angle of the performance is emphasized by the instrument. On first listening I was a bit taken aback by the sound, especially in the louder passages. But the second hearing already agreed with me much better. I think I will continue with this series. I guess the choice of instrument adds a unique flavour, which at the same time creates the need to complement it with other approaches, with other fortepianos. I gather that for me the book on "Schubert on fortepiano" will not be closed for a loooong time to come - endlessly fascinating... :)

Interesting REVIEW.

Q

Don

Quote from: Que on May 31, 2008, 08:49:27 AM


Sonata in C minor D958; Zwei Scherzi D593; Sonata in C major Reliquie D840;
Sonata in A major D959; Sonata in A minor D537
ET'CETERA KTC 1330


I guess in this case the choice of instrument will be a decisive factor for prospective buyers. Vermeulen uses a Viennese fortepiano from 1826 by Nannette Streicher, which seems to me the ultimate in bright, lean, and penetrating sound in fortepianos, with a bell-like upper register. You'll love it (maybe after getting used to it) or you'll hate it, in which case the sound is more likely to be described as tinny, "clanging" and brittle.... ::) This gives rather different results than the earlier recordings Vermeulen made for Vanguard, playing a Tröndlin with a generously warm and mellow sound.
To top off the sound of the instrument, the description of lean and penetrating also fits the performance. This is the perfect anti-thesis of meandering, "candlelight" Schubert: very straight forward and driven, yet unforced and natural. Clearly a case in which the angle of the performance is emphasized by the instrument. On first listening I was a bit taken aback by the sound, especially in the louder passages. But the second hearing already agreed with me much better. I think I will continue with this series. I guess the choice of instrument adds a unique flavour, which at the same time creates the need to complement it with other approaches, with other fortepianos. I gather that for me the book on "Schubert on fortepiano" will not be closed for a loooong time to come - endlessly fascinating... :)

I have this set and have enjoyed it greatly.  For me, the instrument used is not nearly as important as the artistry of the keyboardist.  Heartily recommended.

Que

#106
Quote from: Don on May 31, 2008, 09:25:17 AM
I have this set and have enjoyed it greatly.  For me, the instrument used is not nearly as important as the artistry of the keyboardist.  Heartily recommended.

Just case this was not entirely clear from my post: in the end I liked both, and second your recommendation! :)

And for the other members: this wil be a complete cycle, parts II & III are also available:



Q

Gurn Blanston

Thanks for posting, Q. I am much in agreement with Don in that the pianism of the performer is the main thing, but I will go a step further and say that I have always found the sound of the Viennese fortepiano to be greatly to my taste, and in this recording it seems to enhance the artistry and in no way detract. This is by all appearances the set that will finally have me chasing down a fortepiano version of Schubert!   :)

8)

----------------
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Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

FideLeo

#108
Quote from: Que on May 30, 2008, 06:27:13 AM
OOOhhhh!  :) :)

Q

The use of JB Streicher instrument is significant here -- it was Brahms's own favourite (in chamber music anyway) and will both enhance and guide the performer's artistry in performance and recording.  There is something of older Streichers that we hear on Vermeulen's Schubert that is also obvious in the Brahms -- the Viennese action.  One is reminded of the later composer's anachronistic love of natural horns here.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Bunny

Traverso, How does Vermeulen's interpretation of the late sonatas differ from Andreas Staier's?

FideLeo

#110
Quote from: Bunny on June 03, 2008, 07:41:04 AM
Traverso, How does Vermeulen's interpretation of the late sonatas differ from Andreas Staier's?

Sorry I don't know -- I don't have any of the Vermeulen recordings mentioned by Q yet, so he is clearly more qualified to describe them than I am now.  :P  The only Schubert recording on a Streicher that I have is by
this German pianist called Thomas Gunther, on a German label called Cybele.  Outstanding sound (and on
SACD) good performance (not in the same league, imo, as the Staier though) but the instrument is from 1844
and therefore not one of Nannette's creations.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

FideLeo

#111


The Thomas Gunther disc mentioned above.   I listened to it again today and found myself
favouring it a lot more than before.  The recorded sound is terrific: a mid-19th century pianoforte
never sounded this attractive on disc.  The playing itself is extremely efficacious -- plenty of clarity in
phrasing and articulation.   Not as strongly characterised as the Staier, yet it is very convincing
in a persuasive rather than demonstrative way.  If the MdG Brahms series will be this well
recorded on what essentially is the same instrument, I will leap on their purchase without a
second thought.  :D
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Que

That Schubert looks nice, traverso! :)

Spotted this Bruckner on period instruments under organist & conductor Martin Haselböck.


             click pic for link

Has anyone given this a go yet?

Q

FideLeo

Quote from: Que on June 11, 2008, 10:45:09 AM

Spotted this Bruckner on period instruments under organist & conductor Martin Haselböck.


             click pic for link

Has anyone given this a go yet?

Q

There is a SA-CD net review of this disc, which I was tempted to buy but have yet taken the action  :-[
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/3419  The reviewer seems to have done his share of Bruckner
listening, and his review therefore has some credibility to me.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

M forever

From that review:

This, as far as I am aware, is only the third recording of the 'un-revised' 1866 Linz version of Bruckner's Symphony No 1, following those made by Stanislaw Skrowaczewski and Georg Tintner a few years ago.


Berky's discography actually lists this recording as the Linz version with revisions (1877, ed.Nowak), Skrowacewski as 1877, ed. Haas, and only Tintner as the apparently "unrevised" 1866 version. I don't have any of the discs, so I can't check who is right here.

I can't really read any very specific information about the musical qualities of this performance and the playing style from the review, except that Haselböck drives the music forward impressively without losing the sense of line and that Timpani, as you would expect, are played with hard sticks, but seem rather backward in the overall mix. Why would I expect that? because it is probably the most die hard cliché of period performance that timpani aways have to be played with hard sticks? Even when it comes to music from the second half of the 19th century?

BTW, there is also a recording of the 3rd with Norrington and the London Classical Players. These two are the only recordings I am aware of of Bruckner on more or less "original" instruments. No, wait, there are also the 4th and 7th symphonies with Herreweghe which I both have but I don't remember much about what they are like. I vaguely remember the 7th was pretty uninteresting though.

Bunny

#115
Quote from: M forever on June 11, 2008, 02:18:02 PM
From that review:

This, as far as I am aware, is only the third recording of the 'un-revised' 1866 Linz version of Bruckner's Symphony No 1, following those made by Stanislaw Skrowaczewski and Georg Tintner a few years ago.


Berky's discography actually lists this recording as the Linz version with revisions (1877, ed.Nowak), Skrowacewski as 1877, ed. Haas, and only Tintner as the apparently "unrevised" 1866 version. I don't have any of the discs, so I can't check who is right here.

I can't really read any very specific information about the musical qualities of this performance and the playing style from the review, except that Haselböck drives the music forward impressively without losing the sense of line and that Timpani, as you would expect, are played with hard sticks, but seem rather backward in the overall mix. Why would I expect that? because it is probably the most die hard cliché of period performance that timpani aways have to be played with hard sticks? Even when it comes to music from the second half of the 19th century?

BTW, there is also a recording of the 3rd with Norrington and the London Classical Players. These two are the only recordings I am aware of of Bruckner on more or less "original" instruments. No, wait, there are also the 4th and 7th symphonies with Herreweghe which I both have but I don't remember much about what they are like. I vaguely remember the 7th was pretty uninteresting though.



In re period instrument Bruckner: there is also Anner Bijlsma's recording of Bruckner's string quintet and other chamber music which is on period instruments.  I do understand that this is not symphonic music (duh!), but it is another period instrument recording of Bruckner that I bring up for the sake of completeness. 

M, you wont have to worry about that cliché about hard sticks if you read a review of it. ;)


M forever

I think there is also some sacred music accompanied by "period instruments", but I don't recall right now what that was (and I am too lazy to google or check amazon or discographies for that).

FideLeo

#117
Herreweghe Bruckner Mass in e minor, motets
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

FideLeo

#118


Bizet: L'arlésienne (Suites 1 & 2 etc.); Carmen (Prélude & Entractes I, II, III)

Les Musiciens du Louvre, Grenoble/Marc Minkowski (Naïve V5130)

rave review at MusicalCriticism.com

promotional video as seen on youtube

HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!