The Romantics in Period Performances

[milk]

Indeed! 
For any newcomer it will be hard to compete will Thomas Zehetmair, who kind of nailed the piece with Frans Brüggen... They later did the same with Mozart's concertos. Epic performances IMO.

Q

That'll go on my list for tomorrow then. Although, I do see that there are some good reviews of this one.

[Que]

Sorry to be a New Year's party spoiler but when it comes to nailing Beethoven's VC, there is absolutely no competition whatsoever to Bronislaw Huberman / George Szell / Vienna PO, rec. 1934. One doesn't get more period than that! 

Very period indeed... and a personal favourite. 

Q

[Florestan]

Very period indeed... and a personal favourite. 

Q

I knew it.   

[PerfectWagnerite]

The first two on are on Deezer (and I'm betting on Spotify, though I haven't checked).

https://www.deezer.com/album/15157523?utm_source=deezer&utm_content=album-15157523&utm_term=2140075808_1531010981&utm_medium=web
https://www.deezer.com/album/15377335?utm_source=deezer&utm_content=album-15377335&utm_term=2140075808_1531011006&utm_medium=web

They are all on Amazon Prime now last I checked.

[ShineyMcShineShine]

This was included on BBC3's Record Review a few weeks ago:

Brahms: The Piano Quartets
Primrose Piano Quartet
Meridian CDE84650 (2 CDs)
http://www.meridian-records.co.uk/acatalog/CDE84650_Brahms_The_Piano_Quartets.html


Recorded in the Ehrbar Saal, Vienna on authentic pianos of the period.

As a culmination of many years of research and in preparation for our recording of the Brahms piano quartets using period pianos and gut strings, we convened a four day symposium in Birmingham to workshop, debate and discuss the latest thinking in the field with Dr. Anna Scott, Claire Holden, Dr. Kate Bennett Wadsworth, Professor Ronald Woodley, Jung Yoon Cho and Job Ter Haar.

Pianist Dr. Anna Scott made a compelling case for allowing the evidence of how members of the Schumann-Brahms circle played in early recordings to "romanticise" our very conception of Brahms. Stretching and compressing pulse within an overall tempo and free expressive use of asynchronicity, arpeggiation, rhythmic alteration, agogically inflected dynamic shapes and rubato give her own performances a rich expressivity. She is also the living proof that such playing can work on the modern piano, although most keyboard players find it easier and more natural to adopt period practice on period pianos. During the symposium the Primrose used an 1850's Wilhelm Wieck piano, having previously enjoyed access to an 1890's Blüthner in Hampshire that was factory selected by Brahms for a student, as well as to an exceptional Erard in the former Finchcocks collection.

If pianists generally embrace the sheer beauty of early pianos, modern string players have issues with gut strings that include instability of tuning and lack of power. Fortunately these problems are mitigated by the recording process and the use of smaller pianos. Diferent types of gut ofer an opportunity to characterise diferent strings with diferent colours (just as an early piano makes no apology for having diferent colours in diferent registers). String players in the Primrose regularly use gut, and have been taught, like so many in our generation, by teachers with close and direct links back to Brahms. Discussion and experimentation with expressive slides (portamento), extreme (to modern ears) time taking and speeding up, varying colours with varied vibrato, bow speed, and bow pressure was informed by Claire Holden's work on early recordings of the Vienna Philharmonic, which also revealed that orchestra's ability to come in and out of pure ensemble in order to make part playing more transparent and lines freer and more expressive where appropriate. We also heard from Dr Kate Bennett Wadsworth about her preparations for her recording of the Brahms cello sonatas, using the Bärenreiter edition that she prepared with Professor Clive Brown, considering how the fingerings and bowings of contemporary cellists had interpretational implications. This informed our own work on editions, aided by observations from friends and students when we undertook additional workshops.

[Mandryka]

Pianist Dr. Anna Scott made a compelling case for allowing the evidence of how members of the Schumann-Brahms circle played in early recordings to "romanticise" our very conception of Brahms. Stretching and compressing pulse within an overall tempo and free expressive use of asynchronicity, arpeggiation, rhythmic alteration, agogically inflected dynamic shapes and rubato give her own performances a rich expressivity.

I'm having a problem making sense of this.

It  looks like Anna Scott's thesis is based on the performance style of people who'd studied with Clara Schumann.

https://challengingperformance.com/interviews-recordings/anna-scott/

Schumann's pupils include Fanny Davies, Ilona Eibenschutz, Adelina de Lara, Natalie Janotha, and Carl Friedberg.

Here's Fanny Davies playing Schumann, it does not seem specially romantic to me, on the contrary.  I can't find any recording of her playing Brahms

https://www.youtube.com/v/ntCkaMI8prY

Neither does this recording of Ilona Eibenschutz playing a Brahms ballade

https://www.youtube.com/v/5O34oONYGkU

Nor this recording of a Brahms intermezzo by Carl Friedberg

https://www.youtube.com/v/i4-oOizOgVU

[ShineyMcShineShine]

I've been looking into the Abegg Trio, which supposedly has made at least some HIP recordings, but according to the back covers, Zitterbart plays a Bosendorfer Imperial. Now, I've no idea what this means, but according to Wikipedia "Bösendorfer built the first Imperial in 1909". Anyone care to enlighten me?

[amw]

Most of their recordings are on modern instruments, I think it's only the Brahms trios on Tacet that use period ones

[ShineyMcShineShine]

Most of their recordings are on modern instruments, I think it's only the Brahms trios on Tacet that use period ones

They use the Bosendorfer Imperial on the Brahms recordings, too.

[amw]

Specifically these ones


using an 1864 Streicher.

[ShineyMcShineShine]

Ah, thanks. I didn't realize they changed horses in mid-stream. The first two volumes feature the Bosendorfer.

[ShineyMcShineShine]

Brahms Cello Sonatas by Kate Bennett Wadsworth and Yi-heng Yang. Based on new Bärenreiter editions. According to the Gramophone review, "It's not specified in the notes what instrument Wadsworth uses but her tone is reedy and at times almost gaunt. Yang plays a lovely 1875 Viennese Streicher piano."

[Wakefield]

Just for the sake of writing something on this thread:

[asin]B07NRFGFJD[/asin]

Here some valuable information about the instrument, the interpretation, and this series:

https://bit.ly/2WIGZHW

[Gurn Blanston]

Just for the sake of writing something on this thread:

[asin]B07NRFGFJD[/asin]

Here some valuable information about the instrument, the interpretation, and this series:

https://bit.ly/2WIGZHW

I have both of the disks Schiff has released so far. They are awfully nice, the instrument is superb!

[Florestan]

I have both of the disks Schiff has released so far. They are awfully nice, the instrument is superb!

+ 1.

[Ras]

Just for the sake of writing something on this thread:

[asin]B07NRFGFJD[/asin]

Here some valuable information about the instrument, the interpretation, and this series:

https://bit.ly/2WIGZHW

Interesting that Andras Schiff has decided to play Schubert on a  fortepiano made by Franz Brodmann in Vienna, around 1820. And he says: "It is to me ideally suited to Schubert's keyboard works," he has said. "There is something quintessentially Viennese in its timbre, its tender mellowness, its melancholic cantabilita."

Because he wrote this in 1992 in the booklet for the original issues of his complete Decca recording of Schubert's piano sonatas (under the heading: "Playing Schubert's piano sonatas"):

Andras Schiff: Schubert's piano sonatas has luckily not yet been discovered by specialists playing copies of Graf fortepianos. His music is most sensitive to tonal quality, especially in soft and softest dynamics.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Interesting that Andras Schiff has decided to play Schubert on a  fortepiano made by Franz Brodmann in Vienna, around 1820. And he says: "It is to me ideally suited to Schubert's keyboard works," he has said. "There is something quintessentially Viennese in its timbre, its tender mellowness, its melancholic cantabilita."

Because he wrote this in 1992 in the booklet for the original issues of his complete Decca recording of Schubert's piano sonatas (under the heading: "Playing Schubert's piano sonatas"):

You've discovered that people's opinions can change with experience. In the U.S., refining ones views in response to experience is condemned as "flip-flopping."

I don't have much interest in what musicians say, only in the music they make.

[San Antone]

I don't have much interest in what musicians say, only in the music they make.

Yeah, me too.   

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Yeah, me too. 

I consider your posts to be a form of music. 

[Wakefield]

I don't have much interest in what musicians say, only in the music they make.

But if somebody –other than a musician, I mean– said something interesting, you'd be interested, I guess...