The Romantics in Period Performances

[Karl Henning]

Almost leads a body down the primrose path to conspiracy theorizing . . . .

[Opus106]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

The egg, surely.

Were they both driven by composers' enormous egos?    Actually, I would have drawn it circular if I had the character set available to do that;

Unicode: U+2940 ⥀

venue size -> orchestra size -> composer/music ideas -> technical advancements in instruments -> venue size -> orchestra size -> composer/music ideas -> technical advancements in instruments -> etc...

Yeah, I sort of had that in mind too; things going hand-in-hand (and occasionally out of one).

Appreciate the clarification.

[Pat B]

If so, I would be interested anyway, but I haven't found a problem getting good versions (I also have Jaap Schröder/ Christopher Hogwood doing the 4). It is the Rondo brillant and the Fantasy in C that are killers. AFAIK, the Steck/Hill is the only choice for those. I like them both better than the sonatas, oddly enough, so their scarcity on PI is disappointing.

Two years after you posted this (in a different thread but I thought this one was more appropriate), I ran across another recording, and guess who's on violin?

Vera Beths! Stanley Hoogland is the fortepianist.

I have only found one source (link -- price includes shipping). It's somewhat less pricey than the OOP Steck is now. Since I had just commented that I wanted more Beths recordings and I don't have the Steck disc, I went for it, and it arrived yesterday.

The release date says 2010, but it turns out to be a previously unreleased 1982 (analog) recording. That was a bit disappointing to me, only because I had hoped she was still playing and recording. This must be one of the earliest PI recordings of 19th-century music. Vibrato is more prevalent than in her later recordings but still tasteful. The Rondo and Fantasy give her some chances to show off her chops, which are impressive. Apparently even the pros consider the Fantasy fiendishly difficult to pull off, both technically and stylistically. It's certainly way beyond anything I ever played. She plays it (and the others) with great dynamics and her characteristic exuberance.

Hoogland plays a Weiss from 1842. I don't know enough about fortepiano to comment on his playing or the instrument.

I've listened to it twice already and am very happy somebody unearthed the tapes.

[Gurn Blanston]

Two years after you posted this (in a different thread but I thought this one was more appropriate), I ran across another recording, and guess who's on violin?

Vera Beths! Stanley Hoogland is the fortepianist.

I have only found one source (link -- price includes shipping). It's somewhat less pricey than the OOP Steck is now. Since I had just commented that I wanted more Beths recordings and I don't have the Steck disc, I went for it, and it arrived yesterday.

The release date says 2010, but it turns out to be a previously unreleased 1982 (analog) recording. That was a bit disappointing to me, only because I had hoped she was still playing and recording. This must be one of the earliest PI recordings of 19th-century music. Vibrato is more prevalent than in her later recordings but still tasteful. The Rondo and Fantasy give her some chances to show off her chops, which are impressive. Apparently even the pros consider the Fantasy fiendishly difficult to pull off, both technically and stylistically. It's certainly way beyond anything I ever played. She plays it (and the others) with great dynamics and her characteristic exuberance.

Hoogland plays a Weiss from 1842. I don't know enough about fortepiano to comment on his playing or the instrument.

I've listened to it twice already and am very happy somebody unearthed the tapes.

Very cool, Pat. I had never seen another, not even an OOP!  I like Beths a lot, I think she is very underrated when it comes to being the fiddling end of L'Archibudelli. Bylsma deserves all the praise he gets (again, not enough), but part of that praise should be for his good taste in wedding his fiddler.   

[milk]

I wonder if anyone here has checked this out. Bertrand Chamayou plays an 1837 Erard piano on Liszt's
piano concerto no. 1.

[milk]

What does it mean to give a period performance of romantic music, beyond a PI performance. Does it mean that the music should be played romantically?

Take for example, Gaia Scienza's recording of Schumann's six canonic etudes op 56. What is striking is that Federica Valli  doesn't really try to add expression. I suspect that he thinks  that the music is expressive enough in itself, and that there's no need to add any feeling by using rubato, agogics, striking dynamic variation, strong colouration etc.

Quite a contrast that to for example, Le Sage, who plays a transcription on a modern piano, or to Martin Schneding who uses a pedalflügel, or from Vernet who uses a 19th century French organ. These guys all know that Schumann wrote these etudes as a sort of response to his study of Bach, of course. Not that that proves anything about how it should be played.

Of all these I expect that it's the Gaia Scienza crew who are most concerned about authenticity. But I could be wrong about that. They allowed Uri Caine to make some contributions to their performance of the piano quartet.





Oh by the way, does Franz Vorraber play this music? I just can't find it if he does.

I'm not sure this is the right place for this as I'm not sure this is actually a period instrument. I'm not sure what it is. But I do intend this as a reply to the discussion of Schumann's pedal music. I wonder if anyone has considered this recording:

His name is Mirco Bruson.

[milk]

Here's another more on point:

[Pat B]

Very cool, Pat. I had never seen another, not even an OOP!  I like Beths a lot, I think she is very underrated when it comes to being the fiddling end of L'Archibudelli. Bylsma deserves all the praise he gets (again, not enough), but part of that praise should be for his good taste in wedding his fiddler.   

I know you're not as wildly enthusiastic about her Beethoven concerto as I am. IMO she and Bylsma are both fantastic musicians in their own rights. Of course Archibudelli was (is?) quite a team. I like Immerseel a lot too, though I have less experience in keyboard listening.

[Brian]

Really enjoying this two-fer of all the Mendelssohns' piano trios on period instruments.



Four different pianos are used, from about 1805-1855. So far my only quibble with the performances is a bit of relaxation in the first movement of Piano Trio No. 2, but otherwise, having a lot of fun listening.

[Brian]

HIP Hungarian Rhapsodies for orchestra!

The performances are on the slow side (10 minutes slower than Ivan Fischer, overall), but except for a somewhat soggy No. 4, they're still very enjoyable and the period instruments add a lot of color to the already colorful scores. Some of the woodwind instruments were used in orchestras conducted by Liszt himself. On my first listen, I had to stop after No. 3 and go meet a friend at a bar, and was kind of annoyed at not being able to hear the rest right away!

[Geo Dude]

Now...where can we find this thing?

[Brian]

Hah, oops! I downloaded it from eClassical (FLAC), and it was released on JPC a few weeks ago. That suggests it should be out worldwide later this month, maybe next. I'm not sure who does USA distribution of physical CPO CDs...

[kishnevi]

HIP Hungarian Rhapsodies for orchestra!

The performances are on the slow side (10 minutes slower than Ivan Fischer, overall), but except for a somewhat soggy No. 4, they're still very enjoyable and the period instruments add a lot of color to the already colorful scores. Some of the woodwind instruments were used in orchestras conducted by Liszt himself. On my first listen, I had to stop after No. 3 and go meet a friend at a bar, and was kind of annoyed at not being able to hear the rest right away!

Anything that's good enough to make meeting a friend at a bar into an annoyance must be worthwhile...
And I'm probably going to be doing an order from JPC in a few days, too....

[Sergeant Rock]

HIP Hungarian Rhapsodies for orchestra!

The performances are on the slow side (10 minutes slower than Ivan Fischer, overall), but except for a somewhat soggy No. 4, they're still very enjoyable and the period instruments add a lot of color to the already colorful scores. Some of the woodwind instruments were used in orchestras conducted by Liszt himself. On my first listen, I had to stop after No. 3 and go meet a friend at a bar, and was kind of annoyed at not being able to hear the rest right away!

Thanks for the mini-review. I ordered it. And good timing, Brian: the sale price at JPC ends tomorrow (and there is free shipping too at the moment  )

Sarge

[Brian]

Thanks for the mini-review. I ordered it. And good timing, Brian: the sale price at JPC ends tomorrow (and there is free shipping too at the moment  )

Sarge

Is that free shipping only to Europe?

Also, Jeffrey, I suppose "friend" might be a generous term for this person, but I did end up drinking two of my favorite beers...

[Sergeant Rock]

Is that free shipping only to Europe?

Probably only within Germany.

Sarge

[Geo Dude]

Is that free shipping only to Europe?

Also, Jeffrey, I suppose "friend" might be a generous term for this person, but I did end up drinking two of my favorite beers...

Thanks for the tip.  I'll wait this one out and see how it goes.  Also,

[Geo Dude]

Has the PI movement went to work on Grieg, yet?  If so, any recommendations?

[milk]

Has the PI movement went to work on Grieg, yet?  If so, any recommendations?

I believe she plays an Erard.

[milk]

I see this new release has received a glowing review on music web:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/July13/Mendelssohn_trios_94490.htm

Honestly, the samples don't convince me that this release equals the Musica Omnia release (in sound quality or pugnacity) , even though Musica Omnia doesn't contain the piece he wrote when he was eleven years old. So I guess that that's a reason to get this. There is the Benvenue Fortepiano Trio also but, for me, that also doesn't have the bite that Atlantis has.