Your Favorite Set of the Saint-Saens Piano Concerti

[kishnevi]

The orchestra does not play or sound bad at all, Drasko. Not thin or scrappy. I bought the Saint-Saens Brilliant box for Martinon's symphonies, not expecting anything from the Froment led, Turnabout recordings of the concertos, but I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed them. Both Froment and Tacchino are into this music and the orchestra responds well. My one complaint is that the sound is rather bright, brighter than I prefer, and the piano a little artificial sounding at some points, but it might sound better on another system, or in another room. Gramophone gave the SQ high marks so it might just be me.

Sarge

I have the Tacchino/de Froment recordings as part of a 3 CD Vox box that includes the smaller works for piano and orchestra, and  a miscellany of pieces featuring various instruments with or without orchestra
CD 1 PCs 1, 2, 4
CD 2 PCs 3,5  "Africa" Fantasy
CD 3 Rapsodie d'Auvergne for P. and Orch.
        Wedding Cake Caprice Valse for P. and Orch.
        Fantasie for Violin and Harp Op. 124
        La Muse and Le Poete for Violin, Cello and Orch. Op. 132
        Cypres and Lauriers for Organ and Orch. Op. 156
        Morceau d Concert for Horn and Orch. Op. 94
        Romance for Horn and Orch. Op. 36
       
Tacchino is the pianist on the shorter pieces; the other soloists are Ruggiero Ricci, Susanno Mildonian (harp), Georges Malloch (cello), J P Kemmer (organ) and Francis Orval (horn). 

My memory of the sound quality is about the same as Sarge's description.

I've also got a 2 CD set featuring the complete works for  violin and orchestra,  and cello and orchestra (but not violin and cello and orchestra, since it's missing at least La Muse et Le Poete) (Vox issued it as a jewel case, not a box set) featuring Ricci and Laszlo Varga, and a potpourri of orchestras and conductors in which ORL/Pierre Cao are the leading element (de Froment appears for one piece, the Allegro Apassionata for Cello and Orchestra)

Hmm, I just realized that, since I also have their 5 CD set of the complete piano works (Marylene Dosse),  pretty much everything I have by Saint Saens is from Vox....

[mc ukrneal]

I have only Roge and Hough. I love Hyperion and I particularly love their romantic piano series (of which I have 40-45 from them). But this one is, in my opinion, one of the worst engineered discs they have ever made. It drives me mad to listen to the first track of the first concerto (for example). As a result, I ended up acquiring the Roge just recently and it is much better. The playing is great, but the sound is much more balanced and resonant - a nice full sound. It's a shame really, because I do like what I hear from Hough interpretation wise.

[marvinbrown]

  I voted Roge/Dutoit!

  But why stop at the Piano Concerti, pick this set up and you are in for a treat  0:):

 

  marvin

[Bulldog]

The voting has closed:

1.  Roge/Dutoit

2.  Tie - Malikova/Sanderling and Hough/Orama

[71 dB]

I don't believe that this option is available; the best I could do was the option "show the poll's results to anyone".

Besides, I'll be noting the results when the poll closes.

Now that the poll has ended I can see the results. 

Hough/Oramo set has Africa Fantasy witch is a big plus. Amazingly "rare" work considering how fine it is!

Thanks,,

[kishnevi]

Now that the poll has ended I can see the results. 

Hough/Oramo set has Africa Fantasy witch is a big plus. Amazingly "rare" work considering how fine it is!

Thanks,,

It is also on the Tacchino/de Froment set (at least, it is in the VoxBox issue).

[Bulldog]

It is also on the Tacchino/de Froment set (at least, it is in the VoxBox issue).

And on the Collard/Previn set as well.

As far as I'm concerned, Africa has too many recordings.  It's the type of work I love to hate - nothing but "show" and nothing below the surface. 

[71 dB]

It is also on the Tacchino/de Froment set (at least, it is in the VoxBox issue).

And on the Collard/Previn set as well.

Yes but those didn't do well in this poll!

As far as I'm concerned, Africa has too many recordings.  It's the type of work I love to hate - nothing but "show" and nothing below the surface.

Really? I didn't realize the work is hated. I like it.

[Bulldog]

Yes but those didn't do well in this poll!

Not at all relevant.  What's with the exclamation point?

[Christo]

Really? I didn't realize the work is hated. I like it.

I didn't realize that either. And I love Africa. But I even like more its extended version, better known as the fith concerto, or the `Egyptian'. I know: it is all atmosphere. But it happens to be an atmosphere I love, and one of the best contributions of Saint-Saëns to music.

For me, his fifth piano concerto is one of his best pieces and a good reason to play his music at all. It is also proof that, generally speaking, his style became better over time. Much of his later pieces are neglected as out of date, but should be regarded his finest and most personal. 

[71 dB]

Not at all relevant.

Does this mean this poll was irrelevant?

[Bulldog]

Does this mean this poll was irrelevant?

Again, the frequency of recordings of Africa has nothing to do with the thread topic which deals with member preferences among the sets of the Saint-Saens piano concerti.  For the moment, I'll assume you can differentiate between "frequency" and "preference".

[Brian]

Hi Brian - looking forward to your upcoming comments!    I only have the Roge/Dutoit and enjoy - no comparative comments - Dave 

Hello Dave - I am going to be very unhelpful to you, sadly. Listened to Malikova's 2nd Concerto and liked it quite a bit, but this seems to just be one of those pieces where I enjoyed both the Roge and Malikova performances, but really couldn't tell you if one is "better" than the other. They were both very nice but sounded very similar to my ears. Maybe there are some aficionados who would like to weigh in.

[SonicMan46]

Hello Dave - I am going to be very unhelpful to you, sadly. Listened to Malikova's 2nd Concerto and liked it quite a bit, but this seems to just be one of those pieces where I enjoyed both the Roge and Malikova performances, but really couldn't tell you if one is "better" than the other. They were both very nice but sounded very similar to my ears. Maybe there are some aficionados who would like to weigh in.

Brian - thanks for your comments; Roge at least seems to be 'near the top', so I'll just keep these recordings until others come along - Dave 

[George]

Brian - thanks for your comments; Roge at least seems to be 'near the top', so I'll just keep these recordings until others come along - Dave 

I could (and likely will) live happily with the Roge for the rest of my life.

[Sergeant Rock]

They were both very nice but sounded very similar to my ears. Maybe there are some aficionados who would like to weigh in.

When I said Rogé is my least favorite, that doesn't mean I don't like his cycle too. I do. His playing is exceptional and I prefer the sound Decca achieved to any other version. To my ears his playing is very French: scintillating, elegant, with tremendous élan but also a little cool. Same with Dutoit, a conductor I associate with elegance and restraint, not overt emotion. The most obvious example is the last movement of the Fourth where their absurdly fast tempo completely obliterates the reverential quality of the hymn-like main theme; and like Collard/Previn they give the tune the hiccups. That's unforgivable. I'm not completely happy with Malikova/Sanderling here either (they verge on being just a touch too fast) but they are preferable. (Tacchino, Entremont, Ciccolini and Casadesus are the best in this concerto.) In the first movement Malikova and Sanderling find a darkness that eludes Rogé/Dutoit. That's what I dislike about their cycle: they seem hellbent on proving Saint-Saens detractors right: that the music is all surface glitz with no depth. Other pianists, other conductors simply dig deeper. At least that's the way I hear it.

Sarge

[pjme]

Dutch pianist Hannes Minnaar reached the finals of the Queen Elisabeth competion and will play Saint Saens 5th concerto! Great and brave choice! I wish him all the best.

Maandag | Lundi | Monday 24/05
Yury FAVORIN
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 29 in Bes op. 106 | Sonate n. 29 en si bémol majeur op. 106 | Sonata n. 29 in B flat major op. 106
JEON Minje Target
Franz LISZT Concerto n. 1 in Es | Concerto n. 1 en mi bémol majeur | Concerto n. 1 in E flat major
KIM Da Sol
Joseph HAYDN Sonate in E Hob. XVI : 31 | Sonate en mi majeur Hob. XVI : 31 | Sonata in E major Hob. XVI : 31
JEON Minje Target
Johannes BRAHMS Concerto n. 1 in d op. 15 | Concerto n. 1 en ré mineur op. 15 | Concerto n. 1 in D minor op. 15
Dinsdag | Mardi | Tuesday 25/05
PARK Jong-Hai
Franz SCHUBERT Sonate in a op. 143 D 784 | Sonate en la mineur op. 143 D 784 | Sonata in A minor op. 143 D 784
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 3 in C op. 26 | Concerto n. 3 en ut majeur op. 26 | Concerto n. 3 in C major op. 26
SUNWOO Yekwon
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 24 in Fis op. 78 | Sonate n. 24 en fa dièse majeur op. 78 | Sonata n. 24 in F sharp major op. 78
JEON Minje Target
Sergey RACHMANINOV Concerto n. 3 in d op. 30 | Concerto n. 3 en ré mineur op. 30 | Concerto n. 3 in D minor op. 30
Woensdag | Mercredi | Wednesday 26/05
Hannes MINNAAR
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 7 in D op. 10/3 | Sonate n. 7 en ré majeur op. 10/3 | Sonata n. 7 in D major op. 10/3
JEON Minje Target
Camille SAINT-SAËNS Concerto n. 5 in F op. 103 | Concerto n. 5 en fa majeur op. 103 | Concerto n. 5 in F major op. 103
Takashi SATO
Franz SCHUBERT Sonate in A D 959 | Sonate en la majeur D 959 | Sonata in A major D 959
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 1 in Des op. 10 | Concerto n. 1 en ré bémol majeur op. 10 | Concerto n. 1 in D flat major op. 10
Donderdag | Jeudi | Thursday 27/05
Andrejs OSOKINS
Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART Sonate n. 5 in G KV 283 | Sonate n. 5 en sol majeur KV 283 | Sonata n. 5 in G major KV 283
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 3 in C op. 26 | Concerto n. 3 en ut majeur op. 26 | Concerto n. 3 in C major op. 26
KIM Tae-Hyung
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 6 in F op. 10/2 | Sonate n. 6 en fa majeur op. 10/2 | Sonata n. 6 in F major op. 10/2
JEON Minje Target
Johannes BRAHMS Concerto n. 1 in d op. 15 | Concerto n. 1 en ré mineur op. 15 | Concerto n. 1 in D minor op. 15
Vrijdag | Vendredi | Friday 28/05
KIM Kyu Yeon
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 31 in As op. 110 | Sonate n. 31 en la bémol majeur op. 110 | Sonata n. 31 in A flat major op. 110
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 2 in g op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 en sol mineur op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 in G minor op. 16
Evgeni BOZHANOV
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 18 in Es op. 31/3 | Sonate n. 18 en mi bémol majeur op. 31/3 | Sonata n. 18 in E flat major op. 31/3
JEON Minje Target
Sergey RACHMANINOV Concerto n. 2 in c op. 18 | Concerto n. 2 en ut mineur op. 18 | Concerto n. 2 in C minor op. 18
Zaterdag | Samedi | Saturday 29/05
Claire HUANGCI
Ludwig van BEETHOVEN Sonate n. 21 in C op. 53 | Sonate n. 21 en ut majeur op. 53 | Sonata n. 21 in C major op. 53
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 2 in g op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 en sol mineur op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 in G minor op. 16
Denis KOZHUKHIN
Joseph HAYDN Sonate in Es Hob. XVI : 49 | Sonate en mi bémol majeur Hob. XVI : 49 | Sonata in E flat major Hob. XVI : 49
JEON Minje Target
Sergey PROKOFIEV Concerto n. 2 in g op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 en sol mineur op. 16 | Concerto n. 2 in G minor op. 16

[liverpool]

The most obvious example is the last movement of the Fourth where their absurdly fast tempo completely obliterates the reverential quality of the hymn-like main theme;

The metronome marking in the manuscript (added afterwards) and in the first edition score is a quarter note=184 bpm, so I think you could be wrong (in my humble opinion). Maybe you simply don't like the way Saint Saëns composed his works, but it's unfair to say that Rogé is too fast, when Malikova is too slow on the contrary. I understand that you think that movement would be much better with a slower tempo, but this is not the way it was written. This is a common issue with Saint Saëns for piano players: his style was influenced by Stamaty's teaching which was quite different by the modern one. For this reason, I think Malikova's performance is very good but a bit far afield (and I think the slower tempos have a technical more than a stylistic reason).
On the contrary, I like Rogé's performance in general, but I dislike the sound of the recording. Furthermore, I find that sometimes the orchestra covers the piano in some important passages.
Finally, I think that Hough's performance is the closest to the composer's wills (on a modern piano), but I feel he's often too mechanical and I think his "sciolto/staccato" playing is sometimes out of place.
So it's difficult to say which is my favourite set because each of them have positive and negative aspects. Perhaps, if I'd buy my first set, I'd go with Rogé, but then I'd buy the other sets too.

[Brahmsian]

Hough/Oramo

[liverpool]

There is another Dutoit set, with Jean-Yves Thibaudet.  I am listening right now and liking it.

Are you sure it's a complete set? Searching online, I can find the second and fifth concertos only.