Great Ugly Pieces

[jimmosk]

I was just scanning the virtual dial on the 'Classical' section of iTunes' radio listings, and was struck by how many online stations seem to have mini-descriptions like "Beautiful Classical Music", or "Soothing, Comfortable Classics".
Which is all fine and good, I wish them success and lots of listeners... but there are times when that's just not what you're in the mood for.  And I hate the idea of classical music being stereotyped as WTWP, in Schickele's great phrase (Wall-To-Wall Pachelbel).

So here's my question: what are some pieces you think should be played by a radio station calling itself Your Home For Ugly Classical Music?  I don't want the most extreme excesses of music you can't stand, but rather music you actually like (at least at times), but which you'd certainly not describe as "beautiful, soothing".

To start things off, I'd suggest Schnittke's Peer Gynt, Holmboe's Fifth, and of course The Rite of Spring.

[The new erato]

Shostakovich symph 4, Prokofiev symph 2, Bartok quartets 3-6.

[listener]

MOSSOLOV   Iron Foundry
ANTHEIL  Ballet Méchanique
BARTOK:  The Miraculous Mandarin
IVES   Robert Browning Overture
RUGGLES   Sun-Treader
HINDEMITH  Kammemusik  (6 concertos)
not a memorable "hum-this-while-ironing" tune in that bunch, but I'd welcome a live performance.

[WI Dan]

Beethoven  ......  "Grosse Fuge", Op. 133
Prokofiev  .........  "Scythian Suite", Op. 20

[Opus106]

Beethoven  ......  "Grosse Fuge", Op. 133

Oh yeah!

[Chaszz]

Siegfried's Funeral Music, the culmination of a lifetime of hatred and resentment, transmuted into great music.

I tried here to insert the classic 1860 photo of Wagner looking upward and to the right with a purely malevolent resentment, but find I cannot insert it. How does one do that, please? Pressing the 'insert image' gives me [img][img] with the cursor in between them, but from there on nothing I try works. Thanks...

[jowcol]

Past the url between the two image tags.



For me, Penderecki's Dies Irae and Entombment of Christ were great party killers.  To really freak people out, I like Tibetan Buddhist chants.  (They were used as PsyOps at Waco, and Koresh supposedly freaked out so much they had to stop).  I also like later period Coltrane (Om, Meditations, etc) when I need ugly and rugged.

[Sergeant Rock]

Siegfried's Funeral Music, the culmination of a lifetime of hatred and resentment, transmuted into great music.

I tried here to insert the classic 1860 photo of Wagner looking upward and to the right with a purely malevolent resentment, but find I cannot insert it.

You mean this portrait?



Sarge

[Franco]

Is he displaying the universal road rage hand signal?

[Sergeant Rock]

Is he displaying the universal road rage hand signal?

As Chaszz said, a lifetime of malevolent resentment 

Sarge

[Superhorn]

Siegfried's Funeral Music, the culmination of a lifetime of hatred and resentment, transmuted into great music. Holy Cow ! What the heck does Wagner's obnoxious(if often charming)personality have to do with the profoundly moving tragic power of Siegfried's funeral march? This music is about Siegfried,not Wagner.

I tried here to insert the classic 1860 photo of Wagner looking upward and to the right with a purely malevolent resentment, but find I cannot insert it. How does one do that, please? Pressing the 'insert image' gives me [img][img] with the cursor in between them, but from there on nothing I try works. Thanks...

[Superhorn]

What the heck does the profoundly moving tragic music of the funeral march have to do with Wagner's often obnoxious,if often charming personality?  It's an expression of grief at Siegfried's death,not an expression of Wagner's personality.
  Why does everybody have to read Wagner the man into the music all the time?

[Chaszz]

  What the heck does the profoundly moving tragic music of the funeral march have to do with Wagner's often obnoxious,if often charming personality?  It's an expression of grief at Siegfried's death,not an expression of Wagner's personality.
  Why does everybody have to read Wagner the man into the music all the time?

I believe that as well as grief, a great deal of anger is expressed in the pounding and clashing rhythms. And who knew the ins and outs of anger better than Wagner, who hugely resented not only his enemies but also his friends and benefactors, like Meyerbeer?

The observation that an artist's personality need not color his work is a worthy one, but IMO does not necessarily apply to all artworks. Wagner's personality was variegated. Would we say that the joyful parts of Meistersinger do not express his joy in life?

If not, then...

[Chaszz]

You mean this portrait?



Sarge

Yes, this is exactly the one.

[springrite]

24 hour Lulu marathon.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yes, this is exactly the one.

Well, not exactly 

Sarge

[Scarpia]

Alan Pettersson Concerto for Strings No. 1

[Sef]

Karl Hartmann Symphony 6, Concerto Funebre. Schoenberg - 5 pieces for Orchestra is a favourite. Schnittke - Concerto Grosso No. 1. Ugly (to me) seems to conjure up more of the dissonant works of the early 20th Century rather than the experimental. I don't consider those "ugly" - bewildering, incomprehensible maybe, but not ugly. Hard to put my finger on it, but for me ugly is where you recognize what's going on but it doesn't conform to what you're expecting in a grotesque way.

[snyprrr]

Guerrero SQs

Xenakis Persepolis, Kraanerg, Gmeeorh, etc,... he's got a lot!



I find the plodding, lurching, plopping, sputtering, granite-like globs of dark and murky sludge,...amorphous is the work they like to use,... I find some of the late '60s/early '70s experimentation to be beyond the pale of my ears to withstand the sonic equivalent of ennui. There's one composer, Stankovich?, Stankinsky?, Stan- something, who has a cd of SQs which has been described as amorphous blobs of grey anonymity. I haven't heard them, but I can imagine that this is what I would consider unattracrive.

I mean, you have to CREATE ugly sounds. You have to work at true ugliness. I wouldn't say Ruggles, but, probably, the legion of sub-Ruggles out there (can't think of any).

Check out F. Guerrero's SQs by the Arditti. There's really nothing to hold on to here. Just grey, ugly, grinding (but not in the cool way) sludgy amorphous gobs of tar.

Xenakis' electronic music also makes me want to take a shower.



BUT??? Hartmann? Pettersson?

oh yes,...Schoenberg Op.11 piano pieces,...that's ugly!

[Franco]

Schoenberg Op.11 piano pieces,...that's ugly!

Not to me; they are beautiful, evocative and very well written masterpieces.