"Falling out of love with opera"

[Renfield]

A long time ago in Oxford I went to an outdoor Shakespeare Macbeth. On Christchurch Meadow you can hear all the clocks chime, out of sync with one another. The chiming lasts over a minute. On the first stroke of eight Macbeth was into his .....'Is this a dagger I see before me?.... speech and in the middle of the sleepwalking scene they all struck 10....or rather what it felt like; 100.

Mike

That sounds almost stage-managed.


By the way, you might want to check that post of mine you thought you quoted, as you edited it instead: erato quotes it (yours, not mine). I've made the exact same mistake myself, in a forum I used to moderate, so I know how easily it can happen!

The concert hall in question in Moscow has gone to the cost and trouble of signal-blocking hardware that prevents mobile phones being used for telephony   But it can't disable their use as video-cameras

That's quite impressive. Can't say I fault them, though.

[knight66]

Sorry if I have done you in on that post Eugene...can you repost yours? Can you be bothered? I can't undo the damage.

Mike

[DarkAngel]

A controversial article by the unfortunately-named Robert Thicknesse in The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/may/27/falling-out-of-love-opera

Why even bother with the aggravations/costs of being part of the audience for live production?

Blu Ray and DVD are the great equalizer for opera and best hope for its future..........

As more and more people get HD large screen system in their home they can discover opera all over again
This is what will help spread opera to the mainstream and further away from the elite class

The advantages offered are quite compelling:
-visual and audio presentation......unlike CD sets
-best singers, conductors, productions in the world available in the comfort of your home
-subtitles allow full understanding of dialog between characters......very important advantage
-multiple camera angles and close-ups allow you to see things audience cannot
-background features, interviews, documentaries give you behind the scences look at each opera
-cost of Blu Ray opera less than 1 ticket cost, watch as often as you like

[Renfield]

Sorry if I have done you in on that post Eugene...can you repost yours? Can you be bothered? I can't undo the damage.

Mike

No worries. I don't think there was much to it, beyond the comment about the Japanese tourists and the camera.


DarkAngel, the main problem (or a main problem) with what you're saying is that if we all did that, there wouldn't be any opera to film.

And that's not even taking into account qualitative factors in favour of attending a live performance, such as participation (by sheer virtue of being there), and anticipation (of how the performance will go that night).

[knight66]

Yep, I agree with you Eugene.  Home watching is a very different experience.

Mike

[Renfield]

Yep, I agree with you Eugene.  Home watching is a very different experience.

Mike

With, undeniably, its own perks, like those DarkAngel illustrated.

For one, I don't expect to be going to Bayreuth for a Ring anytime soon, but I have seen their 1992 production! [The Barenboim/Kupfer.] And I'm quite sure my love of opera only increased through that experience, with reference to the original topic.

[knight66]

Well, it does not have to be an either/or. I have some highly cherished DVDs, also some much cherished live performances, none of which made it onto DVD. There is a value in something that is never to be repeated and you were there and experienced it, or it is lost to you.

Of course, I have also watched some very tedious and sleep inducing live performances.

I did catch the BBC transmision of Mozart's Figaro last night, what a delight it was.

Mike

[Renfield]

Well, it does not have to be an either/or.

Definitely. And there's even middle ground to be explored, such as those live broadcasts the MET (and even Bayreuth) is doing.

[False_Dmitry]

each opera
-cost of Blu Ray opera less than 1 ticket cost, watch as often as you like

It all sounds most utopian indeed.  The opera-houses where the shows actually happen will all be closed-down and bankrupt, but apart from that it sounds a splendid modus operandi    

[Scarpia]

It all sounds most utopian indeed.  The opera-houses where the shows actually happen will all be closed-down and bankrupt, but apart from that it sounds a splendid modus operandi    

The opera houses make money off DVD sales, no? 

Opera houses need some economic reality.  If their audience is shrinking they need to reduce ticket prices, and pay performers less.  I live very close to a first class Opera House.  I watch Opera on DVD often, I've never even set foot inside that opera house because I don't have that much money to throw away.   

[False_Dmitry]

Opera houses need some economic reality. 

I somehow doubt the formula offered above counts as "reality" though 

[Scarpia]

I somehow doubt the formula offered above counts as "reality" though 

I have no idea what you are talking about.  If a people think a product is too expensive and not worth it, they won't buy it.   The people who make the product have to options, lower the price, or go bankrupt.  That is as real as it gets.

[Renfield]

I have no idea what you are talking about.  If a people think a product is too expensive and not worth it, they won't buy it.   The people who make the product have to options, lower the price, or go bankrupt.  That is as real as it gets.

The formula in question (if I'm not mistaken), is completely ditching live attendance, in favour of recorded performances, which is unsustainable due to the fact that you need live performances to happen, so they can be filmed.

[knight66]

Are opera audience numbers falling? I am not aware of it if they are. Here, recession has hit more in terms of new productions being abandoned rather then there being empty seats.

Mike

[Scarpia]

The formula in question (if I'm not mistaken), is completely ditching live attendance, in favour of recorded performances, which is unsustainable due to the fact that you need live performances to happen, so they can be filmed.

I'd like to know who, on this thread, suggested that?

[knight66]

Why even bother with the aggravations/costs of being part of the audience for live production?

Blu Ray and DVD are the great equalizer for opera and best hope for its future..........

As more and more people get HD large screen system in their home they can discover opera all over again
This is what will help spread opera to the mainstream and further away from the elite class

The advantages offered are quite compelling:
-visual and audio presentation......unlike CD sets
-best singers, conductors, productions in the world available in the comfort of your home
-subtitles allow full understanding of dialog between characters......very important advantage
-multiple camera angles and close-ups allow you to see things audience cannot
-background features, interviews, documentaries give you behind the scences look at each opera
-cost of Blu Ray opera less than 1 ticket cost, watch as often as you like

Scarpia, It was an extrapolation of this line of argument.

Mike

[Scarpia]

Are opera audience numbers falling? I am not aware of it if they are. Here, recession has hit more in terms of new productions being abandoned rather then there being empty seats.

Mike

I've been to exactly one opera production in the last 10 years.  It was at the Royal Opera House in London (was on holiday and so it was easier to justify the outrageous cost to myself).  The hall was about 2/3 filled.   This was before the great recession got underway.

[knight66]

So, it is your fault, you have not been back.

Your example is not exactly hard evidence of a falloff in tickets year on year. A lot gets sold out there, despite the cost and at ENO I think their audience is about 85% capacity, which is regarded as good and is an increase from a few years ago.

Mike

[Novi]

So, it is your fault, you have not been back.

Your example is not exactly hard evidence of a falloff in tickets year on year. A lot gets sold out there, despite the cost and at ENO I think their audience is about 85% capacity, which is regarded as good and is an increase from a few years ago.

Mike

The ENO has very student/the indigent young-friendly ticket pricing and it was pretty packed the last time I was there (granted, almost a year ago though).

Thicknesse's descriptions resonate as caricature in a Monty Python Goes to the Opera kind of way, but aren't anything like what I've seen around here. It's not particularly posh, nor are the punters always well-heeled or dolled up. There also seems to be a slightly younger crowd at operas than at other classical events here, but that's purely from observation.

A few weeks ago, I scammed my way into the so-called VIP section during the interval - not my usual turf - I was just there with someone chummy with Scottish Opera. But aside from free drinks and ice creams, which was terribly exciting, it wasn't noticeably rarefied.

[knight66]

The ENO has very student/the indigent young-friendly ticket pricing and it was pretty packed the last time I was there (granted, almost a year ago though).

I wish Covent Garden had a non-student, in work, old buffer friendly pricing. But despite the astonishing cost of tickets, they seem to do a brisk business. Last time I was there I was up in the 'cheaper' seats, down in the well of the stalls, the most expensive seats, there was a block of about 60 all taken up by public school kids in their uniforms.

It is quite simple, I was born into the wrong bed.

Mike