Dmitri's Dacha

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:13:49 AM

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Drasko

What I wanted to know is which version of text for the title poem Rozhdestvensky used. The story goes like this, I believe. Right after the premiere in 1962 large party fuss started and Yevtushenko was pressured to alter some of the lyrics into something more soviet friendly. He did so and this revised version was recorded by Kondrashin few days later. Revised version was also used in Kondrashin's studio recording five years later in 1967. Rozhdestvensky's recording is, I think, the only other made during soviet period and I'm curious whether he also had to use the revised version or some twenty years later (when exactly was his recording made, 80s?) nobody give a damn anymore and he could return to the original text.

Don't know if liner notes for Rozhdestvensky's recording mention any of this, or have texts, so here I've attached word file with English text and Russian transliteration of the original version. I've bolded the two verses that got altered afterwards (the first and the penultimate verse for the soloist in the first, title poem) so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out if Rozhdestvensky's soloist is singing this or something else.

I have no text or translation of the revised version and my Russian is too rusty to attempt accurate translation myself, but I've made clips of those two verses from Gromadsky/Kondrashin recording, so if anyone whose Russian is better than mine wants to try here it is:

first verse:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mnzdojvydbr
penultimate verse: 
http://www.mediafire.com/?mkwm4nzjib1

rubio

Quote from: Drasko on March 16, 2008, 09:40:22 AM
I've bolded the two verses that got altered afterwards (the first and the penultimate verse for the soloist in the first, title poem) so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out if Rozhdestvensky's soloist is singing this or something else.

I'm sorry I have not responded earlier, but I have neither had access to a stable internet connection nor the CD during my Easter vacation. I listen to the CD at the moment, and I can confirm that Rozhdestvensky uses the original version of the text. It was easy to hear, as they phrase the words clearly. Insresting story BTW!
"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

johnQpublic

Quote from: The Emperor on September 27, 2007, 07:28:06 AM
Check out this cool cover of Shosty's 10th symphony second movement.
I always said Shostakovich is METAL! ahah

http://www.mediafire.com/?13nsm2j4nlp



That was a fascinating listen. It took a lot of talent & technique to pull it off. Thanks for the link.

Drasko

Quote from: rubio on March 26, 2008, 08:03:55 AM
I'm sorry I have not responded earlier, but I have neither had access to a stable internet connection nor the CD during my Easter vacation. I listen to the CD at the moment, and I can confirm that Rozhdestvensky uses the original version of the text. It was easy to hear, as they phrase the words clearly. Insresting story BTW!

Many thanks!

vandermolen

Terrific new CD of Symphony 4: Staatskapelle Dresden, Kondrashin, German Premiere 1963 (midprice Profil label). This in my favourite Shostakovich symphony and I must have heard nearly all available CDs. This one is my favourite now. It is the most manically intense of the lot (even better I think than Konrashin's wonderful melodiya recording).  Furthermore, the booket is crammed full of fascinating photos of Shostakovich: A great release.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

O Delvig

Quote from: vandermolen on March 30, 2008, 01:50:13 PM
Terrific new CD of Symphony 4: Staatskapelle Dresden, Kondrashin, German Premiere 1963 (midprice Profil label). This in my favourite Shostakovich symphony and I must have heard nearly all available CDs. This one is my favourite now. It is the most manically intense of the lot (even better I think than Konrashin's wonderful melodiya recording).  Furthermore, the booket is crammed full of fascinating photos of Shostakovich: A great release.

Out of curiousity, have you heard Rozhdestvensky? I've heard interesting things about his Shostakovich, but his cycle seems to be out of print. I have a recording of the first Cello Concerto he did with Rostropovich and it's fantastic.

vandermolen

Quote from: spaghetti on April 02, 2008, 02:28:05 PM
Out of curiousity, have you heard Rozhdestvensky? I've heard interesting things about his Shostakovich, but his cycle seems to be out of print. I have a recording of the first Cello Concerto he did with Rostropovich and it's fantastic.

Sorry for delay in replying.  Yes, I have Rozhdestvensky on an old Olympia CD in Symphony 4. It is very good but I prefer the Dresden Kondrashin, which is more appropiately manic and hard-driven, ending in the deepest gloom.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Catison

I just went for a very long run (it is finally 60 degrees in Wisconsin!!) and listened to the 4th Symphony.  Oh wow.  That is all I can say.
-Brett

Varg

Something weird happened today.

I decided to play a Shostakovich symphony. It pissed me off so much that i'm still angry. It was the first time that i reacted this way to music.

I dont know how is that, or, rather, how to explain it (i use to like this music). I felt it was (the music) exagerated and unconvincing, like a clown who's doing all he can to be funny in vain, except here we're talking about a man who tries to convince a feeling of tragedy.

Words fail me. All i can say is that i'll never listen to Shostakovich again; i am that much disgusted.





George

Quote from: spaghetti on April 02, 2008, 02:28:05 PM
Out of curiousity, have you heard Rozhdestvensky? I've heard interesting things about his Shostakovich, but his cycle seems to be out of print. I have a recording of the first Cello Concerto he did with Rostropovich and it's fantastic.

Yeah, his DSCH is definitely worth seeking out.

O Delvig

Quote from: Varg on April 05, 2008, 02:57:24 PM
Something weird happened today.

I decided to play a Shostakovich symphony. It pissed me off so much that i'm still angry. It was the first time that i reacted this way to music.

I dont know how is that, or, rather, how to explain it (i use to like this music). I felt it was (the music) exagerated and unconvincing, like a clown who's doing all he can to be funny in vain, except here we're talking about a man who tries to convince a feeling of tragedy.

Words fail me. All i can say is that i'll never listen to Shostakovich again; i am that much disgusted.


Judging by your avatar, I'd assume you like Pettersson? But not Shostakovich?  ??? ???

Maybe try the string quartets, if you like that genre. Either way, it's good that you at least had a strong reaction to his music. It took me a long time to appreciate his symphonies, and I'm just getting into them now. Some I find a little too programmatic, but perhaps I'll learn to enjoy them. Right now my favorites are 4,8,13 and 14 (Kondrashin set).

BTW, which symphony did you listen to?

DavidW

Did Paulb change his name to Varg? ???

Varg

Quote from: spaghetti on April 05, 2008, 06:57:59 PM
Judging by your avatar, I'd assume you like Pettersson? But not Shostakovich?  ??? ???

Maybe try the string quartets, if you like that genre. Either way, it's good that you at least had a strong reaction to his music. It took me a long time to appreciate his symphonies, and I'm just getting into them now. Some I find a little too programmatic, but perhaps I'll learn to enjoy them. Right now my favorites are 4,8,13 and 14 (Kondrashin set).

BTW, which symphony did you listen to?

It was the 8th.

No, i'm really done with Shostakovich.

I know his SQs, trios and sonatas pretty well, but... i dont know, i guess his sound world doesn't speak to me at all anymore.

Yes, Pettersson is my favorite composer. They are very different from each other, if we put aside the fact that they both have a dark feel (even if Shostakovich's music sounds like a fairytale compare to Pettersson's!  0:)


Varg

Quote from: DavidW on April 05, 2008, 07:02:26 PM
Did Paulb change his name to Varg? ???

No, i just happen to be another Pettersson junkie.

vandermolen

Quote from: Varg on April 05, 2008, 02:57:24 PM
Something weird happened today.

I decided to play a Shostakovich symphony. It pissed me off so much that i'm still angry. It was the first time that i reacted this way to music.

I dont know how is that, or, rather, how to explain it (i use to like this music). I felt it was (the music) exagerated and unconvincing, like a clown who's doing all he can to be funny in vain, except here we're talking about a man who tries to convince a feeling of tragedy.

Words fail me. All i can say is that i'll never listen to Shostakovich again; i am that much disgusted.


I can understand this in regard to Symphony 8. Personally I like this symphony but the three big climaxes in the last movement always sounded rather forced. However, I feel that symphonies 4,10 and 15 are absolutely authentic in their feeling. I love the music of Pettersson too (especially Violin Concerto No 2..one of the greatest works ever and symphonies 6-8).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Grazioso

Quote from: Varg on April 05, 2008, 02:57:24 PM
Something weird happened today.

I decided to play a Shostakovich symphony. It pissed me off so much that i'm still angry. It was the first time that i reacted this way to music.

I dont know how is that, or, rather, how to explain it (i use to like this music). I felt it was (the music) exagerated and unconvincing, like a clown who's doing all he can to be funny in vain, except here we're talking about a man who tries to convince a feeling of tragedy.

Words fail me. All i can say is that i'll never listen to Shostakovich again; i am that much disgusted.



I can sort of understand this reaction. I never quite know whether to love DSCH or to be exasperated by him. All of his "angry circus music," as I call his supposedly "ironic" or satirical bits, can grate when you just want an honest, straightforward expression of emotion--which he's fully capable of. It's like someone cracking a joke right after they say something personally revealing or emotionally direct in order to cover it up. (In this regard, I so far find Pettersson superior: he sounds utterly open, direct, honest, and intense.)
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Pierre

#116
Quote from: Grazioso on April 06, 2008, 03:30:33 AM
I can sort of understand this reaction. I never quite know whether to love DSCH or to be exasperated by him. All of his "angry circus music," as I call his supposedly "ironic" or satirical bits, can grate when you just want an honest, straightforward expression of emotion--which he's fully capable of. It's like someone cracking a joke right after they say something personally revealing or emotionally direct in order to cover it up. (In this regard, I so far find Pettersson superior: he sounds utterly open, direct, honest, and intense.)

To that extent, perhaps Shostakovich is a fair reflection of what passed for intelligent expression in Stalinist Russia (which largely formed him, for better or worse); it was usually dangerous to say anything unambiguous in a world where one party line was quickly replaced by another year after year, sometimes in a matter of months. In a world where official 'truth' was as sturdy as a sandcastle, one could only signal ones true feelings while at the same time wearing a mask of some kind. Shostakovich often parroted current official slogans in his letters to close friends as if to signal, at the very least, 'that's the way we're supposed to behave', so underlining its falsity. I think in the same way Shostakovich had to assume certain grimaces - of triumph, 'optimism', what have you - because it was expected of him. To have expressed unambiguous emotion - except in the brief window provided by the German invasion of Russia - could be in effect signing your own death certificate. To expect him to express himself as freely as the Swedish Pettersson is plainly absurd.

DavidW

Quote from: Grazioso on April 06, 2008, 03:30:33 AM
I can sort of understand this reaction. I never quite know whether to love DSCH or to be exasperated by him. All of his "angry circus music," as I call his supposedly "ironic" or satirical bits, can grate when you just want an honest, straightforward expression of emotion--which he's fully capable of. It's like someone cracking a joke right after they say something personally revealing or emotionally direct in order to cover it up. (In this regard, I so far find Pettersson superior: he sounds utterly open, direct, honest, and intense.)

What a load of crap!

The new erato

I love some of Pettersons symphonies, but what relief if he occasionally found room for a little irony after he openly, directly and honestly have been puching home the same point over and over and over again for 50 minutes................

karlhenning

Anyone is entitled not to like the piece for whatever reason or bouquet of reasons, of course.

But I like the Eighth Symphony a great deal.  Especially the evolving instrumentation of the motto theme in the first movement;  both the scherzi (and I love how he puts the trombones through their paces with those rapid arpeggios);  the exquisitely colored passacaglia;  and just plain everything about the last movement . . . the insouciant bassoon solo which exposes the first theme;  the retransition to a blistering restatement of the motto theme from the first movement;  the 'ghostly' quiet of the coda (which is a wonderful 'inversion' of the close of the Fourth Symphony.

Varg, it is a pity you that decided to couch your inability to like the Eighth in terms of the supposed superiority of Pettersson, whose work I do not find at all either as characterful, or as consistently well made as Shostakovich's.