Dmitri's Dacha

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:13:49 AM

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Quote from: Wurstwasser on December 22, 2010, 03:11:43 AM
Important note: I hereby declare Kurt Sanderling to be my personal "Hero of Shostakovich". I have all the Berlin SO CDs with him conducting and I love them all (Sym. Nos. 1, 5, 6, 8, 10 and 15). I now tried No. 8 with Haitink, but happily returned to Sanderling. He's still alive BTW, heading towards 100 years of age :o .


I wholeheartedly endorse this message. ;) Yes, Sanderling is a fine Shostakovich conductor. I have just recently bought his set on Berlin Classics and have been enjoying them.

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Quote from: Mirror Image on July 01, 2010, 09:12:55 PM
I seldom listen to Shostakovich. Not out of personal dislike or anything, because he composed some very good music, but I just don't find myself connecting to his music as much as I do other composers.

That said, I do enjoy Symphonies Nos. 4, 7, and 10 the most of his symphonies. I also really enjoyed "Violin Concerto No. 1" and "Piano Concerto No. 1."

Other than these works, I'm just not moved by his sound-world or what it is he's trying to convey in his music. Given his history, it's hard to know how really felt, but I know this is just my own opinion and obviously doesn't reflect how other's feel about his music.

Looking back on this post, which I made in July, I have to say I'm quite appalled at my attitude towards Shostakovich. It's been two months and I still can't get enough of his music. What brought about this sudden change? Well, I think there were many factors that came into play: 1. I really didn't know that much about his music, what motivated it, and what it was trying to convey, 2. I didn't know much about his life in general, which I clearly understand much better now after tons of research, and 3. I really wasn't giving the music that much of a chance to grab me.

Sometimes it's better to go into music with no kind of pre-conceived notions and just let it wash over you. Once I got past my own prejudices and nagging opinion of what I thought of his music, then I could enjoy it much more and have been listening to almost nothing but his music for the past couple of months.

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#382
MI, you describe what many of us experience, at least me. Oh well, prejudices. They prevented me listening to Brahms. Because this nasty guy insulted my little tiny Bruckner and it was a question of revenge not to listen to Brahms! A mistake... I enjoy his 4th (didn't try other symphonies of his).

Do you know DSCHs 1st symphony? It's a very remarkable first Symphony IMO. I heard it first in the concert hall and was immediately impressed. Only the final movement is still a problem for me. Don't like it as much as the first three.
I'm currently on the Shostakovich trip as well. After a lot of listens to his fifth, I'll listen more properly to the tenth. I already did, but didn't see the point yet why soo many people would prefer it over the fifth. It didn't touch me. Yet. Future will tell....

BTW, Sanderlings Berlin Orchestra produced some flaws, did you notice? There's a scary (flute?) part at the end of 5/mvmt1, the flute in the end did not produce a proper sound, but rather you hear only the blowing... Also at the bombast Sym 5/mvmt4 finale, cymbal and timpany are not synchronous. Anyway it's the best fifth for me.

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Quote from: Wurstwasser on December 24, 2010, 04:53:42 AM
MI, you describe what many of us experience, at least me. Oh well, prejudices. They prevented me listening to Brahms. Because this nasty guy insulted my little tiny Bruckner and it was a question of revenge not to listen to Brahms! A mistake... I enjoy his 4th (didn't try other symphonies of his).

Do you know DSCHs 1st symphony? It's a very remarkable first Symphony IMO. I heard it first in the concert hall and was immediately impressed. Only the final movement is still a problem for me. Don't like it as much as the first three.

I'm currently on the Shostakovich trip as well. After a lot of listens to his fifth, I'll listen more properly to the tenth. I already did, but didn't see the point yet why soo many people would prefer it over the fifth. It didn't touch me. Yet. Future will tell....

BTW, Sanderlings Berlin Orchestra produced some flaws, did you notice? There's a scary (flute?) part at the end of 5/mvmt1, the flute in the end did not produce a proper sound, but rather you hear only the blowing... Also at the bombast Sym 5/mvmt4 finale, cymbal and timpany are not synchronous. Anyway it's the best fifth for me.

Interesting post, Wurstwasser.

I've known Shostakovich's Symphony No. 1 for quite some time and I really enjoy it. It was his graduation piece and it really doesn't sound a whole lot like Shostakovich, but given it was written at such a young age that is to be expected. It certainly was a great start to one of the most compelling symphonic cycles written in the 20th Century.

Interestingly enough, I didn't pick up on any mistakes in the Sanderling set, but I'll probably go back and revisit these recordings soon. As I have stated to many people, an orchestra are going to make mistakes. It's only natural. Even world-renown orchestras make mistakes, but it may be so slight that we can't quite catch it on first hearing. I still enjoyed Sanderling's approach to Shostakovich. Very intense readings. That reading of the 8th blew my mind! I love it! :)

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What do you all you Shostakovich lovers think of the ballet The Golden Age?

karlhenning

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2010, 09:03:24 AM
What do you all you Shostakovich lovers think of the ballet The Golden Age?

That Naxos recording is on my To Listen To list : )

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Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 27, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
That Naxos recording is on my To Listen To list : )


You should definitely listen to it as soon as possible, Karl. Have you heard this work before? The only other recording of this ballet in its complete form is on Chandos with Rozhdestvensky.

karlhenning

I've only heard the Suite, nor am I sure that I've heard that complete.

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Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 27, 2010, 09:54:12 AM
I've only heard the Suite, nor am I sure that I've heard that complete.


Since you own the Serebrier, I would definitely try to listen to soon. It's a marvelous work.

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

What do you think about that strange passage in Symphony No. 8, 3rd movement, Allegro? What was the intention behind it?

Video starts where I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYfliiuj4-c&feature=player_detailpage#t=194s

Humta Humta Humtataaaa ;) - Music for german "Schützenvereine"


Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

Now I understood my "problem" with the 11th symphony. I love it really, but it's an unusual symphony, because all movements except the In Memoriam one are pretty much the same. They aren't really three different movements.

Another note: I also love the violent passage in the second movement, but it's really no "slaughter". The music is just militaristic there, a heavy march, but no sadness, no tragedy, no fear there.

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#391
Quote from: Tapio on December 28, 2010, 06:01:09 AM
What do you think about that strange passage in Symphony No. 8, 3rd movement, Allegro? What was the intention behind it?

Video starts where I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYfliiuj4-c&feature=player_detailpage#t=194s

Humta Humta Humtataaaa ;) - Music for german "Schützenvereine"



That's apart of the allure of Shostakovich's music. Musicologists, critics, musicians, classical listeners, etc. have been picking his symphonies apart from the time of their premieres to now. Nobody knows why he added this demonic waltz here or those loud almost machine-like military snare rolls there. It's all a mystery to me. But whatever his intentions with his music may have been, it's still some pretty damn fine music. :)

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

At the first listen of the 8th, I was really surprised to hear something like that. I knew he made some really "easy" music which I didn't like (there's a lot of silly stuff with trumpets)- but I was surprised to find it in the eigth. From what I read, (western?) positive critics quickly tend to talk about a) concessions he made or b) music being ironical/hidden criticism. All in order to pull him on the politically "good" side. Which is too easy for me.

QuoteNobody knows why he added this demonic waltz here
Music question: is the above passage a Waltz? I think this 1-2 1-2 is a 2/4 - Polka? Not sure.


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#393
Quote from: Tapio on December 28, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
At the first listen of the 8th, I was really surprised to hear something like that. I knew he made some really "easy" music which I didn't like (there's a lot of silly stuff with trumpets)- but I was surprised to find it in the eigth. From what I read, (western?) positive critics quickly tend to talk about a) concessions he made or b) music being ironical/hidden criticism. All in order to pull him on the politically "good" side. Which is too easy for me.
Music question: is the above passage a Waltz? I think this 1-2 1-2 is a 2/4 - Polka? Not sure.

Well you have to understand the circumstances in which Shostakovich composed his music under. He, as you well know, was under heavy strain from Stalin, and Symphony No. 8 was not a popular symphony and critics quickly dismissed it. If I'm not mistaken, it was banned from performance for many years due to a Soviet doctrine called the Zhdanov Doctrine. This doctrine also banned works by Khactaturian, Prokofiev, and several other Soviet composers. Anyway, I can understand it not being that popular of a work, because it is mostly very bleak in its outlook, but I honestly think it's one of his finest symphonies.

P.S. I have not idea about whether that except is a waltz or polka. I was just using the phrase demonic waltz as an expression to describe how Shostakovich can, with almost the flip of a coin, change musical styles in just one movement.

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 28, 2010, 09:05:23 PMP.S. I have not idea about whether that except is a waltz or polka. I was just using the phrase demonic waltz as an expression to describe how Shostakovich can, with almost the flip of a coin, change musical styles in just one movement.
I see. BTW, the Wikipedia S8 article says: "It [the 3rd mvmt.] features an interesting quote of the Sabre Dance from Aram Khachaturian, composed the year before."

Is it the part we're talking about?

Opus106

Quote from: Tapio on December 28, 2010, 10:31:19 PM
I see. BTW, the Wikipedia S8 article says: "It [the 3rd mvmt.] features an interesting quote of the Sabre Dance from Aram Khachaturian, composed the year before."

Is it the part we're talking about?

I don't know whether it's an exact quote but 3:40 and 4:00, lasting for about 5 seconds in each case, sounds like it might have been taken from the Sabre Dance. But that "background" (please pardon me for the loose/inaccurate terminology) with the bassoon (?) and some kind of cymbal (?) is very similar.
Regards,
Navneeth

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#396
Quote from: Tapio on December 28, 2010, 10:31:19 PM
I see. BTW, the Wikipedia S8 article says: "It [the 3rd mvmt.] features an interesting quote of the Sabre Dance from Aram Khachaturian, composed the year before."

Is it the part we're talking about?

I'm not talking about any specific movement. Just his approach to the symphonic form in general.

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

Quote from: Opus106 on December 28, 2010, 11:24:30 PMI don't know whether it's an exact quote but 3:40 and 4:00, lasting for about 5 seconds in each case, sounds like it might have been taken from the Sabre Dance. But that "background" (please pardon me for the loose/inaccurate terminology) with the bassoon (?) and some kind of cymbal (?) is very similar.
You're right. The aforementioned passage is not an exact quote of the Khatchaturian Sabre Dance, but it's obviously what they are referring to in the Wikipedia article.
As MI writes, change of musical styles with the flip of a coin. Hey, maybe DCSH even liked marches and waltzes, why not.... :)

Opus106

Quote from: Tapio on December 29, 2010, 08:52:10 AM
Hey, maybe DCSH even liked marches and waltzes, why not.... :)

Last night I was listening to the Suite for Varied Orchestra (a.k.a. Jazz Suite No. 2), and it's almost full of those things.
Regards,
Navneeth

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Quote from: Opus106 on December 29, 2010, 09:04:41 AM
Last night I was listening to the Suite for Varied Orchestra (a.k.a. Jazz Suite No. 2), and it's almost full of those things.


Yes, it is and it's a delightful little piece.