Dmitri's Dacha

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:13:49 AM

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Drasko

#660
Quote from: eyeresist on February 19, 2012, 05:32:58 PM
Mravinsky is sometimes accused of political cowardice or even personal betrayal for the fact that he didn't conduct the premiere of Shostakovich's 13th symphony. As is usual in these cases, there is no evidence to back these accusations. Nonetheless, I've been wondering over the years why Mravinsky didn't conduct the work.

I was curious about same questions you pose, but never could find anything resembling definite answer.
There definitely was political pressure about premiere of the 13th, two bass soloists backed out on the day of the performance and only third option, very little known Gromadsky sung it.
Kurt Sanderling, who knew Mravinsky very well, argued that if Mravinsky backed out under party pressure it wouldn't be because being afraid for himself (he already had openly defied the party on numerous questions, and they never really could touch him) but because being afraid of repercussions on other participants.
Gregor Tassie, author of only english language Mravinsky biography (which I haven't read) argues in an article in Gramophone that the reason was purely personal, namely that Mravinsky's wife was on her death bed at that time and that Mravinsky hasn't conducted much at all, let alone premieres of new pieces, even canceled some tours.
Is any of these views correct I have no idea.

QuoteI had theorised that Mrav had a personal aversion to choral work: the single choral work in his discography is Shosty's Song of the Forest, which Mrav premiered and recorded in 1949.

That's also something I noticed, lack of recordings of choral music is very prominent in Mravinsky's discography. But then I run across some of his concert listings on some Russian site. How much are those correct I can't tell but they do list a number of choral pieces he performed, including Beethoven's 9th and Missa Solemnis, Berlioz Requiem, Prokofiev's Nevsky.
So I came up with a different theory - Grand Hall of Leningrad Philharmonic is not very well suited for performances for orchestra and chorus. The stage is very shallow and to best of my knowledge the chorus has to be positioned on galleries above, left and right. That set-up is probably difficult to record live (back in those days), and since Mravinsky only allowed live recordings for most of his career he might not be satisfied with recording results and simply refused to record choral pieces.
But this is only just theory as well.

QuoteMore recently I became curious about the chronology of the premiers and noticed that while Mrav conducted the first 12th in October 1961, the belated first performance of the 4th was given in December of that same year, not by Mrav but by Kondrashin. Since Mrav had conducted all but two premiers (7 and 11) since and including the 5th, is it possible he was angry at being overlooked for this important event, and refused the 13th for this reason?

I don't know much about the premiere of the 4th, but I doubt that was a reason.



bhodges

#661
There's a very fine Shostakovich 11th Symphony available online until April 3, with Charles Dutoit and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (taped March 2010). Never quite warmed up to Dutoit in these symphonies, but heard him last year in the Tenth with Philadelphia (excellent) and now this, so...  Dutoit takes the ending slightly faster than I'd like, but the playing is outstanding.

http://cso.org/ListenAndWatch/Details.aspx?id=19621

--Bruce

eyeresist

#662
Quote from: Drasko on February 21, 2012, 02:03:56 AMGregor Tassie, author of only english language Mravinsky biography (which I haven't read) argues in an article in Gramophone that the reason was purely personal, namely that Mravinsky's wife was on her death bed at that time and that Mravinsky hasn't conducted much at all, let alone premieres of new pieces, even canceled some tours.
Is any of these views correct I have no idea.

That's also something I noticed, lack of recordings of choral music is very prominent in Mravinsky's discography. But then I run across some of his concert listings on some Russian site. How much are those correct I can't tell but they do list a number of choral pieces he performed, including Beethoven's 9th and Missa Solemnis, Berlioz Requiem, Prokofiev's Nevsky.
This is very interesting, thank you.

Another oddity re Mrav not conducting the 4th: the orchestral parts, whose rediscovery led to the late debut performance, were actually found in the archives of the Leningrad Phil, which of course was Mravinsky's orchestra.

Could you link to that site of Mrav's live performances? I'd like to know if he ever conducted the 4th (no recording exists as far as I know).

Scion7

Sure, London Treasury US-New York pressings are pretty miserable.  And yeah, there are much better modern recordings of the London FFF albums that I have on CD.  The Karajan was a straight DDD so that was an easy transfer to CD.  Still, I will love these records!

   
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

John Copeland

Quote from: Scion7 on February 22, 2012, 05:04:54 PM
Sure, London Treasury US-New York pressings are pretty miserable.  And yeah, there are much better modern recordings of the London FFF albums that I have on CD.  The Karajan was a straight DDD so that was an easy transfer to CD.  Still, I will love these records!

Kertesz and Shostys 5th?  That sounds very interesting indeed.  I'd love to hear the Largo from that!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Scots John on February 22, 2012, 05:10:52 PM
Kertesz and Shostys 5th?  That sounds very interesting indeed.  I'd love to hear the Largo from that!

Me too! 8)

Drasko

Quote from: eyeresist on February 22, 2012, 04:36:31 PM
Could you link to that site of Mrav's live performances? I'd like to know if he ever conducted the 4th (no recording exists as far as I know).

Sure, but it's in Cyrillic

http://www.mravinsky.org/pages/op-list.htm

I wrote down some:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11288.msg280443.html#msg280443

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

eyeresist

Quote from: Drasko on February 22, 2012, 11:55:27 PMSure, but it's in Cyrillic

http://www.mravinsky.org/pages/op-list.htm

I wrote down some:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11288.msg280443.html#msg280443

Many thanks, Drasko!  According to the site (translated by Google), composers Mrav performed included A. Stomachs and M. Deaf.

Drasko

Quote from: eyeresist on February 23, 2012, 03:47:04 PM
Many thanks, Drasko!  According to the site (translated by Google), composers Mrav performed included A. Stomachs and M. Deaf.

It's not badly translated actually

Живот (zhivot) = belly, stomach => A. Stomachs = А. Животов = Alexander Zhivotov (whose Heroic Poem Mravinsky did perform and record, 5th disc of Brilliant Classics box)

Глух (glukh) = deaf => M. Deaf = Михаил Александрович Глух = Mikhail Glukh (whose Suite Mravinsky performed once, and whose name is probably some russified version of German name Gluck rather than deaf in its original meaning)

Mirror Image

Since this thread gets a lot of traffic I have to post this, for those Shostakovich fans out there that don't own the Kondrashin box, now here's your chance to buy for $58 with free shipping if you have an account with Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-Complete-Symphonies-Dmitry/dp/B000IONEZG/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1330121957&sr=1-12

This is an incredible deal since this set is going for $134 under another listing on Amazon. Don't hesitate to buy this set!

eyeresist

So, is this any good?

[ASIN]0691128863[/ASIN]

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on February 26, 2012, 05:22:19 PM
So, is this any good?

[ASIN]0691128863[/ASIN]

Yes, so far, but I've only read the first chapter. I don't own this edition, I own the original.

Karl Henning

Quote from: eyeresist on February 26, 2012, 05:22:19 PM
So, is this any good?

[ASIN]0691128863[/ASIN]

Very good. In fact, I consider it obligatory reading.

Separately: no interest in the review of a live performance of the Fifth? That's all right, of course ... but surprises me a touch.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 24, 2012, 01:27:21 PM
Since this thread gets a lot of traffic I have to post this, for those Shostakovich fans out there that don't own the Kondrashin box, now here's your chance to buy for $58 with free shipping if you have an account with Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Shostakovich-Complete-Symphonies-Dmitry/dp/B000IONEZG/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1330121957&sr=1-12

This is an incredible deal since this set is going for $134 under another listing on Amazon. Don't hesitate to buy this set!

Did anyone, in the US, take advantage of this offer yet?

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2012, 05:37:18 PM
Yes, so far, but I've only read the first chapter. I don't own this edition, I own the original.

The new edition is certainly value added.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

eyeresist

Quote from: karlhenning on February 26, 2012, 05:40:17 PMVery good. In fact, I consider it obligatory reading.

Separately: no interest in the review of a live performance of the Fifth? That's all right, of course ... but surprises me a touch.


I read it, and thought it was good, but couldn't think of anything to say :)

Karl Henning

Well, sometimes one cannot.

That's cool.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: karlhenning on February 26, 2012, 05:42:51 PM
The new edition is certainly value added.

I'm sure it is, but at $4 I wasn't about to argue.

Karl Henning

Sure. They do unload outdated editions at a pittance. (Games Publishers Play)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot