Dmitri's Dacha

[Brian]

Them Houstonians have a good band.

It's funny, they always draw great acclaim on the road - but then, I only ever see them at Jones Hall, which is acoustically deadening. It's not a great place to see a concert.

[Karl Henning]

Brings new meaning to the term Jonesing . . . .

[Karl Henning]

Brian, how does the Petrenko account of the Eleventh compare, do you know?  I was thinking of giving that instalment in his ongoing series a miss, but this taste of the piece as your home band gave it out has me wondering . . . .

[Brian]

Brian, how does the Petrenko account of the Eleventh compare, do you know?  I was thinking of giving that instalment in his ongoing series a miss, but this taste of the piece as your home band gave it out has me wondering . . . .

I actually plan to listen to it again soon - I'm soon to be reviewing the Kreizberg Eleventh (from Monte Carlo) for MusicWeb and will compare with Petrenko among others. I can tell you that when I saw Petrenko conduct the piece live (LPO), it was an utterly thrilling account - in fact, the 'massacre' section was probably the most purely terrified I've been, in a concert hall. Yes, I really will have to listen to the CDs soon 

[Mirror Image]

So I've been revisiting the VCs, what spectacular works these are! I'm trying to get a better understanding of the 2nd, which obviously is late-Shostakovich as it is Op. 129. Anybody got any suggestions or thoughts that could help me understand 2nd VC better?

[Karl Henning]

So I've been revisiting the VCs, what spectacular works these are! I'm trying to get a better understanding of the 2nd, which obviously is late-Shostakovich as it is Op. 167. Anybody got any suggestions or thoughts that could help me understand 2nd VC better?

Oh, not Op.167! That's impossibly high.

It's a wonderful, and wonderfully elusive, piece. Not even sure how to "pitch" such a piece.  My only suggestion, John (and it may well be that others have a better) is: live with the concerto, do an intensive course with it, for a week.  I didn't find it the sort of piece which I could fathom, just playing it a few times as part of a regular flood of rotation. It's a piece of surprising, compelling quietude which requires close attention.

And: it might be the leverage for you which illuminates Schnittke.

Maybe.

[Karl Henning]

. . . as it is Op. 167.

Of course, I see where this typo came from, now: Opus 129 (1967)

[not edward]

It's been a really long time since I've heard op 129, so I should rectify this soon. Karl's 'elusive' is of course a very good description of the piece; I'd characterize it as one of the more understated works in DSCH's late period. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall there being a few sly half-references to the violin concerto from Hindemith's Kammermusik in the piece.

As for the Schnittke comment: I'm going from memory here, but I seem to recall reading that Schnittke listed the second violin and cello concerti and the 14th quartet as amongst the Shostakovich works that meant the most to his generation of composers in the USSR. It's easy for me (at least) to see how, given the expressively ambivalent nature of all three.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, not Op.167! That's impossibly high.

It's a wonderful, and wonderfully elusive, piece. Not even sure how to "pitch" such a piece.  My only suggestion, John (and it may well be that others have a better) is: live with the concerto, do an intensive course with it, for a week.  I didn't find it the sort of piece which I could fathom, just playing it a few times as part of a regular flood of rotation. It's a piece of surprising, compelling quietude which requires close attention.

And: it might be the leverage for you which illuminates Schnittke.

Maybe.

Thank you, Karl. And, yes, it's Op. 129. I don't know where I got the other number from. I mean I like the work, I'm just not as crazy about as I am Op. 77 (or 99 ). But we'll see how it goes.

[Mirror Image]

It's been a really long time since I've heard op 129, so I should rectify this soon. Karl's 'elusive' is of course a very good description of the piece; I'd characterize it as one of the more understated works in DSCH's late period. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall there being a few sly half-references to the violin concerto from Hindemith's Kammermusik in the piece.

As for the Schnittke comment: I'm going from memory here, but I seem to recall reading that Schnittke listed the second violin and cello concerti and the 14th quartet as amongst the Shostakovich works that meant the most to his generation of composers in the USSR. It's easy for me (at least) to see how, given the expressively ambivalent nature of all three.

Thanks for you feedback, Edward. I shall be giving it more careful listens soon.

[Karl Henning]

. . . I'm just not as crazy about as I am Op. 77 (or 99 )

At this point there are enough recordings and/or concert program notes out there with the wrong number, that the error may never be completely eradicated, but yes: the First Vn Cto is Op.77.

[Mirror Image]

At this point there are enough recordings and/or concert program notes out there with the wrong number, that the error may never be completely eradicated, but yes: the First Vn Cto is Op.77.

If I was a professor of music, I would make my students remember Op. 77 NOT Op. 99!!!

[PaulR]

If I was a professor of music, I would make my students remember Op. 77 NOT Op. 99!!!

I would be the nice professor and accept both answers   (As long as the hypothetical student labels Op. 99 as the Violin Concerto*)

I enjoy the both of the later violin and cello concerto's as much as the first of both genres.  It's...unfortunate they arent recorded more.

*this attitude is subject to change as I grow wiser

[Mirror Image]

Here's an excellent performance of Shosty's Violin Concerto No. 1 with Vadim Repin (violin) and Paavo Jarvi conducting the Orchestre de Paris:

Movement 1 - Nocturne:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7r4kYqB_mx4

Movement 2 - Scherzo:

http://www.youtube.com/v/42pcJ-_AN1I

Movement 3 - Passacaglia: Andante:

http://www.youtube.com/v/mbzprkgFbtY

Movement 4 - Cadenza, Burlesque:

http://www.youtube.com/v/rWx58Lte0uk

[Karl Henning]

The only time (thus far) that I've heard the Op.77 live, it was Repin, Masur, and our band here in Boston. Dynamite!

Jens, did I imagine it, or did you express a low opinion of Slava's account of the Op.43?  I can see your point, and yet . . . and yet . . . well, I should really compose a proper paragraph or two on that . . . .

[jlaurson]

The only time (thus far) that I've heard the Op.77 live, it was Repin, Masur, and our band here in Boston. Dynamite!

Jens, did I imagine it, or did you express a low opinion of Slava's account of the Op.43?  I can see your point, and yet . . . and yet . . . well, I should really compose a proper paragraph or two on that . . . .

You're probably right, since i have a low opinion of most of Slava's DSCH recordings... especially the symphonies. He wasn't a good conductor and he didn't have a good orchestra and he used DSCH to further his conducting career.

Of his Shostakovich symphonies (the complete set - largely with the NSO - is available on Teldec), I cannot recommend many when there is always an interpretation that I'd much rather hear. The early recordings are uneven, lacking in the necessary tension, and are often let down by the NSO's lack of will or ability. Any complete set I know is preferable, be it Jansons (EMI), Barshai (Brilliant), Kitajenko (Capriccio), Kondrashin (Aulos/Melodiya) or Haitkink (Decca). The LSO recordings on the orchestras' own label are better, by-and-large, but hugely overrated. His Eighth on that label, though, is a worthy contender. Slowness in that symphony is no detriment to the grim and stark atmosphere and I rate his account above Gergiev (Philips) and Wiggelsworth (BIS), alongside Barshai and Kitajenko and only marginally behind Jansons.

(The Violin Concertos with him and Vengerov are very good, but that's not really Rostropovich's doing.)

Ha, just read the review of his last concert in the US, which ends on the nastiest little zinger I may have ever penned.

To keep the audience members in their seats until the end (Britten and Dutilleux are not acceptable Washington fare), Dvořák's 8th Symphony was programmed. Possibly as good as the overplayed "From the New World," it is a work that is easy on the ears, occasionally grandiose, rightly popular with concert-goers. Until tonight, that was. Listening to what Rostropovich did with this work was puzzling. Literally and metaphorically speaking, he turned it into the longest Dvořák symphony I ever had to sit through. Plodding along at insufferably slow speeds, he made sure that musical lines disappeared and that any sense of rhythm here or heroism there were fastidiously excised; emotional subtleties plowed under. The brass fanfare opening the last movement smacked of tin, the following strings sounded better. But the orchestra should not be blamed for this. (Except that they should not only not have looked at Rostropovich, they should have outright ignored his instructions.) Anyone to attend today, Friday, or tomorrow, Saturday, at 8PM will come away with a greater appreciation for Leonard Slatkin.

[Karl Henning]

You're probably right, since i have a low opinion of most of Slava's DSCH recordings... especially the symphonies. He wasn't a good conductor and he didn't have a good orchestra and he used DSCH to further his conducting career.

Not the best conductor of not the best orchestra is inarguable (and something which we might observe of the Barshai set, meseems).

That last is an intangible, and open to discussion. He was no Volkov, for heaven's sake ; )

[Karl Henning]

Ha, just read the review of his last concert in the US, which ends on the nastiest little zinger I may have ever penned.

Oh! That reminds me. I meant to ask if you perhaps had heard him do the Fourth live?  I am trending towards liking this recording, but it would certainly not be my first suggestion to anyone initially coming to the piece.  Although, I could see that performance having a positive impact live.

[kishnevi]

While I think Slava's NSO 4th is a relatively poor performance,  and based on that have never been interested in listening to the rest of his NSO recordings,  I have to say that his 8th and 11th on LSO Live are my favorite performances of those symphonies.  They were among my first DSCH recordings, and my introductions to those symphonies, and I have yet to find a performance that equals, much less excels them (this refers to such recordings as Gergiev and Haitink but not some standards I haven't heard such as Barshai and Kondrashin).

[Sergeant Rock]

While I think Slava's NSO 4th is a relatively poor performance,  and based on that have never been interested in listening to the rest of his NSO recordings,  I have to say that his 8th and 11th on LSO Live are my favorite performances of those symphonies.  They were among my first DSCH recordings, and my introductions to those symphonies, and I have yet to find a performance that equals, much less excels them (this refers to such recordings as Gergiev and Haitink but not some standards I haven't heard such as Barshai and Kondrashin).

I like Rostropovich's Shostakovich, including some of the NSO recordings. His Fifth is my favorite along with Lenny and the New York Phil in Tokyo. But Rostropovich conducts what I call the Volkov Finale: it's pure torture, grinning through the agony, and not everyone is going to respond to it positively. (It's the opposite of Lenny's triumphalism.) Some younger conductor's play it the same way now, so Slava has been influential.

While I was going through his cycle, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 13 and 14 stood out. Jeffrey, I agree with you about the live LSO 11th. Spectacular.

Sarge