Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau

[Mandryka]

I must say I mostly  incline to the second option, though I think I enjoyed him much more in the past.

There are some things that I  do see he does well -- dramatic songs, for example, like Der Zwerg and Erlkonig.

But mostly I think I can do without his rather hammy manner. His annoying attention to detail.

But then maybe I am missing something . . .

[DavidW]

I wasn't aware that DFD was supposed to be polarizing as the poll suggests.

[Verena]

I must say I mostly  incline to the second option, though I think I enjoyed him much more in the past.

There are some things that I  do see he does well -- dramatic songs, for example, like Der Zwerg and Erlkonig.

But mostly I think I can do without his rather hammy manner. His annoying attention to detail. . . .

Completely agree. I can sometimes enjoy the young DFD, but on the whole I find his style of interpretation totally annoying and exaggerated. His constant 'pointing out' of details I find completely tiresome. Possibly, his omnipresence has also detracted attention away from a singer whom I enjoy much more and who, in his younger days, had a really incomparable voice and produced the most lovely interpretations of Lieder and Mélodies I know (I mean Gérard Souzay, of course). 

[Scarpia]

I wasn't aware that DFD was supposed to be polarizing as the poll suggests.

I see no polarization, everyone agrees so far.   

[kishnevi]

You have a dissent now.
Actually,  I don't think he's da bomb, but he's got a lot more positives than negatives, and while I own some of his Schubert and  most of his Mahler, most of what I have of him is opera.  And this one I bought fairly recently

in which, unlike every other version I own, he gives dramatic effect to the baritone solos.
I recommend it to everyone except Scarpia (in deference to his opinions about Janowitz, who is the soprano here).

[Mandryka]

In some of the Bach cantatas I think he is well worth hearing -- for example in  "Es ist vollbracht" - from BWV 159: "Sehet! Wir gehen hinauf gen Jerusalem".  with Karl Richter on EMI.

After making the IP for this thread I listened to his Dichterliebe  with Vladimir Horowitz. I thought it was appalling -- terrible piano and FD roaring in a vain effort to drown his accompanist.

Yet he can do Schumann quite well sometimes -- I like the Liederkreis Op. 39 in the live CD from Orfeo. And the Kerner Lieder recording with Günther Weissenborn.

But the nadir of his output has to be the Mahler songs with Bernstein at the piano.

[Verena]

I like the Liederkreis Op. 39 in the live CD from Orfeo.

I remember liking that one as well. It's one of the few recordings by him which I really like. I also like some of his early Schubert Lieder on Emi.

[Wendell_E]

None of the above.  Somewhere between the first and second options (closer to the first).

[Mandryka]

This is a pretty good Winterreise.  Certainly my favourite from DFD.

It's from a concert in Prades in 1955

I can remember hearing 7 Winterreises from him at various times, over the years:

- Billing 48
- Moore 51
- Moore 55
- Moore 62
- Moore 72
- Brendel 79 (DVD)
- Brendel 82

I would ditch them all except the 55 -- The one with Billing is beautifully sung but maybe lacking a bit in depth of feeling. By the time of Moore 62  he had become too artificial for me, even though I can appreciate the expressive details.

[mjwal]

I agree about the '55 Winterreise and the Orfeo Liederkreis Op.39 (there's an even earlier EMI recording, perhaps even more beautiful and without the coughs). I also agree with Verena about Souzay, who needs a thread of his own. I can take him in homeopathic doses, particularly in rare repertoire like Schoeck (DG), and some of his live Wolf interpretations with Richter are great despite his well-known proclivities. He's unlistenable in opera, but some of his early Bach cantatas etc were moving, without that Hectoring quality, as I recall - as were Souzay's, which remain unavailable like so much of his work owing to his own strange predilection for the later recordings.

[Verena]

This is a pretty good Winterreise.  Certainly my favourite from DFD.

Agree about this Winterreise. I also greatly enjoyed his Winterreise with Demus on DG - although it's not among DFD's early recordings. I listened to the Demus recording very frequently some years ago. Perhaps I'd now respond differently to it.

[kishnevi]

But the nadir of his output has to be the Mahler songs with Bernstein at the piano.

Which is some of "his Mahler" I don't have.  Are you referring to the Wunderhorn recording? I think I've heard it once, many years ago, on radio, when we still had a classical music station in Miami, and was distinctly unimpressed.   Of course, at that stage I was not as enthused over Mahler as I am now. 
It's true that they did collaborate well on DlvdE, but perhaps the flaw to those recordings is the guy on the piano bench: Bernstein's approach may not have fitted DFD's very well.

[Mandryka]

Which is some of "his Mahler" I don't have.  Are you referring to the Wunderhorn recording? I think I've heard it once, many years ago, on radio, when we still had a classical music station in Miami, and was distinctly unimpressed.   Of course, at that stage I was not as enthused over Mahler as I am now. 
It's true that they did collaborate well on DlvdE, but perhaps the flaw to those recordings is the guy on the piano bench: Bernstein's approach may not have fitted DFD's very well.

I'm talking about the Rückert-Lieder on this recording

[ccar]

Thank you all for the refreshing posts in this thread. 

Firstly, I am sure no one here wants to deny the importance of DFD as one of the most significant singers of his generation. And his lifelong dedication to lieder interpretation, including many of the less known composers, is a definitive achievement that will stand as an imprint in singing history.
       
For many years I also tried to "connect" to the singing of DFD. It was not an easy task. I began with the most widely Known and respected Schubert-Moore DG set. The voice was impressive, the control and nuances of articulation were amazing and his obvious technical command made him capable of overcoming any demand. But in spite of all his perfection my personal sensibility was not touched. Everything seemed to be there and I couldn't understand clearly what I missed. I thought it was my lack of serious musical Knowledge or, as someone put it once, just my inability to recognize good singing. In fact many of my musical friends, and even some professional singers I Know, consider my coldness to DFD some form of snobbish and unjust attitude to one of the most revered interpreters of our time.

I did explore further and like others in this thread I also became more responsive to DFD's Wolf or Brahms than to his Schubert or Schumann. I also recognized, and appreciated, that in his earlier interpretations his singing is much more natural and the musical flow and phrasing is not submerged by so many emphatic details of articulation.

But the fact remains that after years of listening to German lieder  I still prefer singers like Souzay, Hotter, Schiotz, Wunderlich, Munteanu, Prey or Husch to the overpowering DFD. They may have lesser technical means, be much less regular in their performances and sometimes may exhibit imperfections or even stylish exaggerations. And certainly didn't cover so extensively the repertoire. But their singing was much more warm and natural. Probably less detailed and studied but, at least for me, more poetically profound and humane.

[Verena]

But the fact remains that after years of listening to German lieder  I still prefer singers like Souzay, Hotter, Schiotz, Wunderlich, Munteanu, Prey or Husch to the overpowering DFD. They may have lesser technical means, be much less regular in their performances and sometimes may exhibit imperfections or even stylish exaggerations. And certainly didn't cover so extensively the repertoire. But their singing was much more warm and natural. Probably less detailed and studied but, at least for me, more poetically profound and humane.

In a possibly similar vein, I'd say that DFD gives the impression of a teacher who points out the relevance of particular parts of a poem. This is very annoying to me - I don't feel the need to be taught anything when listening to music. In a way, DFD creates a distance between himself (the listener) and the music - but when I'm listening to music, in want to be immersed rather than reflectively engaged in it it. 
On the other hand, he lacks a really exceptional timbre in my view - setting aside some of his early recordings, where he could sometimes sound quite beautiful. But singers such as Wunderlich and especially the young Souzay had a much more beautiful timbre in my opinion. This is probably also true for Huesch, but somehow I don't "get" that voice, it somehow calls up unpleasant associations.   

[Superhorn]

  I've never been one of those who findthe great FD "self-concious,unspontaneous and hammy". How unfair to such a great artist!
  He was not only a great lieder singer, but wonderful in opera. Unfortunately,I never got to see him on stage, but his
recorded portrayals of such characters as Wozzeck, Don Giovanni, Mathis der Maler, Hans Sachs, Doktor Faust, Mandryka in Arabella, Lear in Reimann's Lear, and many other roles are truly compelling.
  He really could act with his voice,and he is said to have been a great actor onstage in opera and a riveting stage presence.

[zamyrabyrd]

Firstly, I am sure no one here wants to deny the importance of DFD as one of the most significant singers of his generation. And his lifelong dedication to Lieder interpretation, including many of the less known composers, is a definitive achievement that will stand as an imprint in singing history.
   

Ditto to the above. His discography is a virtual library of the German repertoire, plus Verdi and much more. (No need to restate the obvious.)

Just the other night on Mezzo TV was Schöne Müllerin, done recently with Eschenbach. I'd pass on that in favor of earlier recordings. He was even flat in the beginning, more speaking than singing throughout, but expressive nevertheless
--pretty good for a performer of 80+ years. (He was born in 1925).

ZB

[Mandryka]

He perfected a novel and totally non -operatic way of singing songs. Everything comes from the heart. It's not about dramatic declamation or the voice beautiful.

Did anyone sing like that before? -- Erb sometimes maybe.  Ferrier sometimes maybe. Cuenod and Deller and Pears sometimes maybe. Amd Hotter : surely Hotter was an inspiration for him.

But I think really FiDi finessed this style.

[Verena]

He perfected a novel and totally non -operatic way of singing songs. Everything comes from the heart. It's not about dramatic declamation or the voice beautiful.

Mandryka, I don't quite get this.  Didn't you say before that you're inclined to the second opinion (that DFD is self-conscious and unspontaneous) - which to my mind seems to be almost the opposite of being a singer with whom 'everything comes from the heart'. In fact, I'd rather suggest with DFD, everything comes from the brain - which is his great achievement, but perhaps also his great limitation.

[kishnevi]

I'm talking about the Rückert-Lieder on this recording

Not the recording I was thinking of. 
The one I heard was an in-concert recording with LB at the piano, involving only Wunderhorn and with a soprano singer.  My memory suggests that it was recorded in Vienna and Janet Baker was the soprano, but it's been far too long for me to be sure about the details beyond the first sentence of this paragraph.

Is the rest of the CD as bad? Or is it just the Ruckert Lieder that earns special oppobrium?

Edit: Digging around,  this entry from Arkivmusic seems to be the one I'm thinking of--and if it is, the baritone for the Wunderhorn songs was not DFD but Walter Berry!
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=65681
The Fanfare reviewer liked the Ruckert Lieder (which I'm presuming is the same performance you're talking about) but was not overly impressed with LB's piano playing.