Comparing Composers

[Franco]

Oh good, I mean - Great! - now that I know that following the rules is necessary for writing good Classical music, where can I find them?

Saul, do you know?

[karlhenning]

Following the rules is the greatest thing when it comes to writing Great Classical music, yes.

That is only one of your profound misunderstandings.

[karlhenning]

Oh and by the way, next time I will be having some roast chicken, I would know what music to listen to on the background.

OTOH, you're right: Mendelssohn is no good even as sonic wallpaper ; )

[MN Dave]

I refuse to have a battle of wits with a roasted chicken.

[Luke]

Oh good, I mean - Great! - now that I know that following the rules is necessary for writing good Classical music, where can I find them?

Saul, do you know?

Don't bother, I asked him that hours ago, and there was no cogent reply, at least no 'rules' which you can't find being followed by dozens of degenerate modern composers also. It boiled down to 'music which I like', of course...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Its a roast chicken compared to real music.

I always thought it was a filet of fish.

Anyways, this is for Sforzando: not that I agree that German traditional music form is better then the French or the Dutch or any other Europan country.

While I'm delighted to see you favor the Dutch, a key word from my post was "diluted."

[Franco]

Roasted chicken is GREAT!

[Saul]

OTOH, you're right: Mendelssohn is no good even as sonic wallpaper ; )

Karl, if you ever write anything that comes close to Mendy's Song without words, contact me I would be delighted to hear it.
But until then calling one of the greatest musical geniuses with names, wont get you my respect.

[Teresa]

And, as if "following the rules" were The Greatest Thing ; )

Karl even atonal music has rules, have you ever composed a 12 tone row?

In composition class we did a 12 tone row, and here were the ground rules.  12 tone rows are like equal rights for music notes.  In the melody line you cannot reuse a note until all 12 have been used, although you can repeat a note as often as you want.  In the harmony lines you can have no tonal intervals, no thirds, no fourths, no fifths, no octaves.  You can have ugly intervals such as minor seconds, diminished ninths, augmented elevenths and even use tone clusters.  It was the hardest thing I ever wrote, writing in the Mozart style was easy by comparison.

What some do not know is that the "rules" are always evolving.  Take for example Haydn's Surprise Symphony, what shocked people was not the loud chord, the use of "Twinkle, twinkle little star" no it was the ending of II, V, I instead of IV, V, I.  Haydn changed the rules and created an alternate ending.   

[Saul]

I refuse to have a battle of wits with a roasted chicken.

Haha!

I eat them not have 'battle of wits' with them!!! 

[Saul]

Karl even atonal music has rules, have you ever composed a 12 tone row?

In composition class we did a 12 tone row, and here were the ground rules.  12 tone rows are like equal rights for music notes.  In the melody line you cannot reuse a note until all 12 have been used, although you can repeat a note as often as you want.  In the harmony lines you can have no tonal intervals, no thirds, no fourths, no fifths, no octaves.  You can have ugly intervals such as minor seconds, diminished ninths, augmented elevenths and even use tone clusters.  It was the hardest thing I ever wrote, writing in the Mozart style was easy by comparison.

What some do not know is that the "rules" are always evolving.  Take for example Haydn's Surprise Symphony, what shocked people was not the loud chord, the use of "Mary Had a little lamb" no it was the ending of II, V, I instead of IV, V, I.  Haydn changed the rules and created an alternate ending.   

Schoenberg was a false prophet just like the rest of the modernists.
The Baal had many followers too, that means nothing.

[Franco]

Karl even atonal music has rules, have you ever composed a 12 tone row?

In composition class we did a 12 tone row, and here were the ground rules.  12 tone rows are like equal rights for music notes.  In the melody line you cannot reuse a note until all 12 have been used, although you can repeat a note as often as you want.  In the harmony lines you can have no tonal intervals, no thirds, no fourths, no fifths, no octaves.  You can have ugly intervals such as minor seconds, diminished ninths, augmented elevenths and even use tone clusters.  It was the hardest thing I ever wrote, writing in the Mozart style was easy by comparison.

What some do not know is that the "rules" are always evolving.  Take for example Haydn's Surprise Symphony, what shocked people was not the loud chord, the use of "Mary Had a little lamb" no it was the ending of II, V, I instead of IV, V, I.  Haydn changed the rules and created an alternate ending.   

GREAT!  The Evolving Rules of Worthy Composition - now, I must go sharpen a bunch of pencils.

[Saul]

GREAT!  The Evolving Rules of Worthy Composition - now, I must go sharpen a bunch of pencils.

Whatever you do, don't stick them into the Chicken!!! 

[MN Dave]

Even crack addicts listen to classical.

[Saul]

Even crack addicts listen to classical.

Yes, it helps them adjust to their 12 different personalities...Bach has always been considered as a Balancer.

[karlhenning]

Karl, if you ever write anything that comes close to Mendy's Song without words, contact me I would be delighted to hear it.

Saul, if ever I think that my musical worth depends on comparison to that 19th-century musician of whom it has been aptly said, He started as a genius, and developed into a first-rate talent, I'll let you know! ; )

But until then calling one of the greatest musical geniuses with names, wont get you my respect.

Then you understand why no one here has any respect for you, as you so liberally call a number of musical geniuses scornful names.

Correction: the opportunity is there for you to achieve an understanding. I have my doubts that you have the intellectual strength to embrace the lesson ; )

[Teresa]

Correction: Haydn's Surprise Symphony, has the melody "Twinkle, twinkle little star".  I corrected the original post but some reply's have the wrong melody listed.

Speaking of Haydn, someone asked earlier if I liked any composers before 1800.  I do like some works by Haydn, Handel and Biber.   Also I like Leopold Mozart's (Wolfgang's father) Toy Symphony, I have the version with the Munich Chamber Orchestra on Tudor.  I will admit a lot of the appeal is the beautiful melody, the wind machine and sound effects. 

[karlhenning]

Um, Teresa, that melody is not "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star."

However, Mozart wrote a set of variations on that tune, which he knew as "Ah, vous dirais-je, maman."

[Saul]

Saul, if ever I think that my musical worth depends on comparison to that 19th-century musician of whom it has been aptly said, He started as a genius, and developed into a first-rate talent, I'll let you know! ; )

Then you understand why no one here has any respect for you, as you so liberally call a number of musical geniuses scornful names.

Correction: the opportunity is there for you to achieve an understanding. I have my doubts that you have the intellectual strength to embrace the lesson ; )

Ok, Mr., Intellectual, and this is coming from someone who said that Schoenberg is a better composer then Mendelssohn. LOL that's the same as Teresa's pitiful assertion that Stravinsky was a better composer then Mozart.

You always attack me that I don't provide any evidence to what I said, but then What evidence did you or Teresa provide in explaining why these two 12th rate composers better then the Musical Giants Mozart and Mendelssohn...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Take for example Haydn's Surprise Symphony, what shocked people was not the loud chord, the use of "Twinkle, twinkle little star" no it was the ending of II, V, I instead of IV, V, I.  Haydn changed the rules and created an alternate ending.   

That is not a correct description of the harmony at that point, which is a perfectly standard half cadence on the dominant: VI, V-of-V, V. In any case II is commonly substituted for IV in cadences and thus II, V, I is just as commonly found as IV, V, I.