Comparing Composers

[Teresa]

Your opinion doesn't mean sh-t to me. You have been asked for one specific example, chapter and verse, of any of the flaws you allege, and you are unable to do so. Hence the logical conclusion, confirmed by your evasiveness, is that you know nothing of the music you claim to so dislike other than a few vague recollections.

WRONG I did give complete details a few pages back and they apply to all 41 compositions I have purchased over a 40 year period.

I have not been evasive about anything, I have given complete details, way more than I should have.  If you trusted in your own feelings you would not need my approval to love Mozart.   

[Scarpia]

I agree with this. Schumann was known to be a clumsy orchestrator and sometimes his musical ideas just don't seem to mesh well. Mozart, on the other hand, had exquisitely crafted music, which is not just an opinion, but a fact.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Schumann.  He had his strengths and weaknesses.  One of the weaknesses is orchestration that does not come off well unless performed sensitively.  Another is that in his more formal music (symphonies, for example) his phrasing tends to be excessively regular, leading to a certain sense of rhythmic monotony at times.   However, he was one of those who invented to style we call romantic.  I've come to appreciate his works more and more as I have become more familiar with it.

[karlhenning]

WRONG I did give complete details a few pages back and they apply to all 41 compositions I have purchased over a 40 year period.

Gawd, but you're funny! "Complete details," forsooth!

[Mirror Image]

Karl,

Not to get this thread off topic, but I looked at your website and you've composed 100 works? Wow, that is amazing. It looks like you recently completed a ballet. Ballet music some of my favorite music. Anyway, I don't want to get this discussion any further off-topic, but kudos to you for being so prolific and keep up the good work sir!

[karlhenning]

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Schumann.  He had his strengths and weaknesses.  One of the weaknesses is orchestration that does not come off well unless performed sensitively.  Another is that in his more formal music (symphonies, for example) his phrasing tends to be excessively regular, leading to a certain sense of rhythmic monotony at times.   However, he was one of those who invented to style we call romantic.  I've come to appreciate his works more and more as I have become more familiar with it.

I'll agree that there's actually nothing wrong with Schumann's orchestration. Still, can't say that his symphonies have 'got in amongst me' at all the way that Brahms's have.

[Mirror Image]

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Schumann.  He had his strengths and weaknesses.  One of the weaknesses is orchestration that does not come off well unless performed sensitively.  Another is that in his more formal music (symphonies, for example) his phrasing tends to be excessively regular, leading to a certain sense of rhythmic monotony at times.   However, he was one of those who invented to style we call romantic.  I've come to appreciate his works more and more as I have become more familiar with it.

Absolutely, Schumann's faults don't make his music any less enjoyable. I particularly enjoy his "Piano Concerto" and the seldom heard "Violin Concerto."

[karlhenning]

Karl,

Not to get this thread off topic, but I looked at your website and you've composed 100 works? Wow, that is amazing. It looks like you recently completed a ballet. Ballet music some of my favorite music. Anyway, I don't want to get this discussion any further off-topic, but kudos to you for being so prolific and keep up the good work sir!

You are very kind, thank you!  I've actually yet to complete the ballet, though I have got 90 minutes of its music composed.

[Scarpia]

I'll agree that there's actually nothing wrong with Schumann's orchestration. Still, can't say that his symphonies have 'got in amongst me' at all the way that Brahms's have.

I can't say I find Schumann's symphonies as rewarding as Brahms'.  However, I can't say I've found any composer's symphonies as rewarding as Brahms.   

[karlhenning]

Absolutely, Schumann's faults don't make his music any less enjoyable. I particularly enjoy his "Piano Concerto" and the seldom heard "Violin Concerto."

I need to go back to it, but I have a hard time with the last movement of the Violin Concerto.

The Cello Concerto, though, I think very highly of.

[Teresa]

Any impartial party owns that Mozart is a great composer.

Dead wrong, here are just four contrasting opinions, and they are opinions NOT facts as you dictate.  Do you live in a communist country, that could explain why you are so anti-freedom of expression.

"Mozart was a bad composer who died too late rather than too early."
Glenn Gould

"most of Mozart's music is dull."
Maria Callas

"If a man tells me he likes Mozart, I know in advance that he is a bad musician."
Frederick Delius

"Too Much Mozart Makes You Sick"
Norman Lebrecht 

[(poco) Sforzando]

If you trusted in your own feelings you would not need my approval to love Mozart.

I need your approval? This is getting beyond the comical.

"Oh Teresa! please tell me I'm allowed to enjoy Mozart! I've been playing and listening to Mozart for 45 years before I ever even heard ot Teresa, and just waiting for her to come along to tell me I can love this music! Such a liberation. She truly is - Mother Teresa!"

[Mirror Image]

You are very kind, thank you!  I've actually yet to complete the ballet, though I have got 90 minutes of its music composed.

You're welcome. I didn't go through all of your compositions, but have you written any symphonies or concerti? I would be very interested in hearing these and the ballet when you complete it.

[karlhenning]

Here's an imperfect comparison for you:  I don't think I enjoy any of Schumann's symphonies as well as I do the Mendelssohn Italian Symphony; yet overall, I believe that Schumann was the finer symphonist.

[Mirror Image]

I need to go back to it, but I have a hard time with the last movement of the Violin Concerto.

The Cello Concerto, though, I think very highly of.

I haven't heard his "Violin Concerto" in a long time, so perhaps another listen will be in order for myself as well. I have forgotten about his "Cello Concerto." I will go back and listen to this work as well.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Absolutely, Schumann's faults don't make his music any less enjoyable. I particularly enjoy his "Piano Concerto" and the seldom heard "Violin Concerto."

Personally, I find the Schumann piano concerto deadly dull, and the symphonies rather uneven. I much prefer the song cycles, and some of the piano music such as the C major Fantasy and the Carnaval.

[karlhenning]

You're welcome. I didn't go through all of your compositions, but have you written any symphonies or concerti? I would be very interested in hearing these and the ballet when you complete it.

Only sketches of symphonies and a concerto.  Believe me, if it is granted to me that an orchestra be ready to program such a piece, I should be glad to bring one to completion!  There's been a certain pragmatic undergirding to my work, and largely I have tended to write pieces for which there was an imminent prospect of performance.

[karlhenning]

I haven't heard his "Violin Concerto" in a long time, so perhaps another listen will be in order for myself as well. I have forgotten about his "Cello Concerto." I will go back and listen to this work as well.

Some may think it having my cake and eating it, too, but . . . I like the Cello Concerto both as Schumann scored it, and as Shostakovich arranged the accompaniment.

[Teresa]

I need your approval? This is getting beyond the comical.

"Oh Teresa! please tell me I'm allowed to enjoy Mozart! I've been playing and listening to Mozart for 45 years before I ever even heard ot Teresa, and just waiting for her to come along to tell me I can love this music! Such a liberation. She truly is - Mother Teresa!"

If you do not need my approval, then why is my opinion so important to you that you keep harping on it?  Especially since you know I do not want to give you a play by play.  Trust yourself and your feelings.  All I have tried to say is anyones low opinion of a composers compositional skills should have no effect on anyone enjoying the music they love.  Why people are having such a hard time with this simple concept I do not know.

[Teresa]

No, this is more wilful falsehood on your part.  There are actual facts involved.

Opinions can NEVER be facts, to present them as so is to discount other peoples opinion.  We do not do this in a free and open society. 

[karlhenning]

If you do not need my approval, then why is my opinion so important to you that you keep harping on it?  Especially you know I do not want to give you a play by play.

Exactly. You have nothing to back your assertion that Mozart is "a bad composer," just the trivial factoid that, gosh, you don't like any of it. La di da. Not much of an opinion, is it?