Chez Stravinsky

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:24:18 AM

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snyprrr

Le Chant du Rossignol


Well, this whole time I thought this piece was a part of the Opera, and was a long, slow, rapturous vocalese, or, at least, an aria. I mean, why shouldn't I have assumed it was part of an opera?

Anyhow, flash forward to yesterday, when I'm looking through all the Igor I probably won't like ('Rage' I just didn't want to hear; 'Mavra' sounded nice in the background; 'Renard' sounded like fun), and I see LCDR sitting there in the middle like some refugee from 1906.  I saw that it was 20mins., so, I guess... it has to be... sooomething,...mmm?

So, I got around to seeing the Boulez (DG) and Chailly (Decca) next to each other on the Q, and saw they almost had the same programme, and read the reviews, andAndAND...

WOW, the Chailly sample sounded like a Bartok-meets-Cowell???... or something pretty cool, very ticking, as the story I learned (see? I had no idea what it was). So, I was thinking 'Miraculous Mandarin', right? Anyhow, I didn't think Boulez did the same cool thing. What say ye?

Anyhow, now I reevaluate all these considerations in light of this MajorIgorMoment!!


snyprrr

Renard

I thought this was brilliant last night, heard it for the first time (Chailly, w/Walton). I usually can't handle that many warbling males voices,  but of course here it is all done wonderfully. I just had it on in the background, but I could have sworn it sounded like Chailly conducting Hindemith there for a second in the beginning, Anyhow, this and 'Le Chant du...' were my two major discoveries last night.

Well, and 'The Fairy's Kiss',... didn't make it to 'The Card Game', but, at this point I'm going to figure that I'll like it as much as everything else.



can't fight it now :laugh:

snyprrr

Collecting Igor can be a bewildering proposition. Here are some of my guidelines-


1) APOLLO & ORPHEUS always always always need to go together. Add AGON if you want, but please,... right?


2) BAISER & JEU should go together... only one is Alun Francis on Arte Nova


3) It's always a good idea to have ALL THREE "SYMPHONIES" TOGETHER- witness Composer/CBS.


4) Please don't ruin a perfectly adventurous programme with a lousy SYM/PSALMS!!!!!


5) Put all PIANO & ORCHESTRA rogether- witness Salonen and Ashkenazy.


6) ALWAYS put SACRE with either

a- totally different Composer, ultra adventurous (Barenboim/Teldec)

b- TRY to get all of TheBig3 on one "disc",........ otherwise, just one of the other two,... maybe add 'Noces' into the mix for a
    double? (Davis, Dorati)

c- totally off the wall Igor (Mackerras)


7) Don't mix it up so much that your programme comes into competition with every.single.purchase.always.


8) NO GRATUITOUS SACRES, or TheBig3.


9) Son't put Orchestra and Chamber Music together (Chailly- Baiser and clarinet solos???)


10 ) any more?

Scion7

re: snypyyyrrrr

I am speechless.
I am without speech.
:blank:
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on February 27, 2017, 01:24:10 PM
Collecting Igor can be a bewildering proposition. Here are some of my guidelines-


1) APOLLO & ORPHEUS always always always need to go together. Add AGON if you want, but please,... right?


2) BAISER & JEU should go together... only one is Alun Francis on Arte Nova


3) It's always a good idea to have ALL THREE "SYMPHONIES" TOGETHER- witness Composer/CBS.


4) Please don't ruin a perfectly adventurous programme with a lousy SYM/PSALMS!!!!!


5) Put all PIANO & ORCHESTRA rogether- witness Salonen and Ashkenazy.


6) ALWAYS put SACRE with either

a- totally different Composer, ultra adventurous (Barenboim/Teldec)

b- TRY to get all of TheBig3 on one "disc",........ otherwise, just one of the other two,... maybe add 'Noces' into the mix for a
    double? (Davis, Dorati)

c- totally off the wall Igor (Mackerras)


7) Don't mix it up so much that your programme comes into competition with every.single.purchase.always.


8) NO GRATUITOUS SACRES, or TheBig3.


9) Son't put Orchestra and Chamber Music together (Chailly- Baiser and clarinet solos???)


10 ) any more?

If a recording has an intelligent Stravinsky program then it's a success. As for your guidelines, well...thanks for the laugh. :D

snyprrr

lES nOCES


I left it like that to highlight its Modernity. All I ask for is your TopChoice. I expect no more than three...

snyprrr

AAAAHHHH- I don't have enough funds$$$!!!??? ??? :o ??? :o


GO FUND my Stravinsky binge!!


Quote from: Mirror Image on February 27, 2017, 02:01:56 PM
If a recording has an intelligent Stravinsky program then it's a success. As for your guidelines, well...thanks for the laugh. :D

btw- that DG Box... yea, kinda tempting, BUT,... I do see they reached far and wide, but mostly Boulez,... some of the crucial choices are "pre-approved" though...

but I'm already too far down the rabbit hole...



I do like Mustonen...  (oh, this carbonara is expanding...excuse me...)

snyprrr

It was pretty obvious I was going to have an Igor "problem"... lol :'(

Drasko

Quote from: snyprrr on February 27, 2017, 03:06:36 PM
lES nOCES


I left it like that to highlight its Modernity. All I ask for is your TopChoice. I expect no more than three...



Reuss has been my long time favorite for vibrancy, crispness, precision, clarity, recording quality ...
Eotvos is still I believe the only recording of the 1917 version for full orchestra.
You could also get Rex Lawson on pianola, Stravinsky's transcription.

Of other recordings of standard version that I've heard Stravinsky's own is not that well played nor recorded, Craft's second (Naxos) is ok but not particularly memorable, Ancerl is very good but the recording shows a bit of age, Gergiev is manic, Currentzis I have but haven't listened to yet.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: snyprrr on February 27, 2017, 10:33:31 AM

1) RENARD- as a stand alone, I was thinking about Chailly (Decca; w/Walton) only because it stands alone. All the others
                     (Salonen, Wolff) have mostly duplicating recitals...

QuoteDutoit?         

The one below kills two birds with one stone: Renard and Dutoit (and maybe three birds since the coupling looks right). It's the only Stravinsky I've heard by Dutoit but it is a fabulous performance.



[asin]B00021SUI6[/asin]
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

IMHO, Boulez's Erato account of L'Histoire du soldat is quite fine:


Karl Henning

Quote from: ritter on February 27, 2017, 11:12:06 AM
Now there I disagree. Being a diehard Boulez fan (no news there  ;) ), I've never warmed to that recording, which I find heavy-handed and lacking in airiness and humor. Boulez's later CSO live recording is vastly superior IMHO.

Regards,

Cheers, Rafael!  The recording with the Ensemble InterContemporain is peculiar in some ways.  The interpretation is smoother, more romantified than (a) is usual for the Stravinsky piece, and (b) is typical of the band (and, well, their Leader).   So I could see the recording suffering in your estimation for those reasons.  It is not my first choice (and you have now piqued my curiosity for the CSO recording), but I admit I enjoy it as a musically strongly presented alternate take.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

ritter

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 28, 2017, 07:42:58 AM
Cheers, Rafael!  The recording with the Ensemble InterContemporain is peculiar in some ways.  The interpretation is smoother, more romantified than (a) is usual for the Stravinsky piece, and (b) is typical of the band (and, well, their Leader).   So I could see the recording suffering in your estimation for those reasons.  It is not my first choice (and you have now piqued my curiosity for the CSO recording), but I admit I enjoy it as a musically strongly presented alternate take.
Good day,  Karl! I see your point. I'm all for alternate approaches to great works  (as long as they're done the way I like them) :D

Perhaps, in this occasion,  I'm being more papist than the Pope  ;)

Karl Henning

Hey, one prefers what one prefers!  No fault.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: Draško on February 27, 2017, 03:48:20 PM


Reuss has been my long time favorite for vibrancy, crispness, precision, clarity, recording quality ...
Eotvos is still I believe the only recording of the 1917 version for full orchestra.
You could also get Rex Lawson on pianola, Stravinsky's transcription.

Of other recordings of standard version that I've heard Stravinsky's own is not that well played nor recorded, Craft's second (Naxos) is ok but not particularly memorable, Ancerl is very good but the recording shows a bit of age, Gergiev is manic, Currentzis I have but haven't listened to yet.

thx... almost there...

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 27, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
The one below kills two birds with one stone: Renard and Dutoit (and maybe three birds since the coupling looks right). It's the only Stravinsky I've heard by Dutoit but it is a fabulous performance.



[asin]B00021SUI6[/asin]

Soldat?

Have I ever heard... wait... what?... have I only heard the trio version? which I'm really ambivalent over (Charlie Daniels)... what's the best way to hear this music? and who?

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 28, 2017, 08:49:14 AM
Hey, one prefers what one prefers!  No fault.

Excellence Has No Preferences!! (Four Word Post, Karl)- three times, how's that? :laugh:


OK, closing in on the homestretch... finally

CONCERTO IN Eb

CONCERTO IN D

snyprrr

'Dumbarton Oaks' Concerto

I have Dutoit, but critics agree, he may be just a little polite, and I thought he missed the "ticking" theme, which I must now hear in strict "ticktock" rhythm. Please, lets settle this one right away. Somehow I imagine Chailly doing it well (remembering that 'Le Chant du Rossignol' sample).

Otherwise, Dutoit's sonics are fine, but there are so many oddball contenders out there: Guildhall, Norrington!!!!!, Colin Davis, Boulez, Hogwood, Orpheus, Sarasate (Virgin), the Endymion Ensemble (EMI-rare?), Howarth (EMI),

Surely there must be some neurotic out there with most of em...eh? What's the skinny?

snyprrr

Concerto in D

Everyone always says that you have to be careful to whom you listen to in this one, because some, apparently, just don't "get it". All I have handy in Dutoit- the Reviewers seem to be kind to him, so, I eagerly awaited the first notes.

Now, I'm always getting the two 'Concertos' mixed up, but this time, I heard this dark, Martinu-like motorized horror show of "wrong note baroque", maybe a soundtrack for 'Nosferatu'? I like it this time, but it seems unfriendly in a way, but the direction, and sound, maximize everything into relief, yielding an imposing, and forced, musical argument that I can see turning audiences off at the time (and still not popular?).

I figured you could just look at this as a timbre piece. Dutoit gave up some niiice string tones, but is there anyone else whose strings are out of this world (Karajan besides).

I don't have Karajan at the hand, but I remember his being very criticized, yet checking now people seem to like the lushness...


Let's see, who else of note?...


Guildhall (RCA)
Iona Brown (Virgin)
Colin Davis
Salonen (SONY)
Turovsky
Sarasate (Virgin)


No Boulez here??? huh...Chailly?

Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on February 28, 2017, 06:09:34 PM
If it's not loud, then you're not listening to Stavinsky  :P

Now that you mention it, it does seem like Igor and IX share the dismissal of volume to the argument,... hmmm? Igor has a few normal quiet parts, but not so much in IX, but there is definitely an ON/off switch instead of a volume knob in both of them (and Feldman- pulling the sounds out of boxes on a desk).

I wouldn't say "loud", I would say "on", as in "oh that Igor, he's always 'on'"

as opposed to "oh that Romantic fellow, he's always going in and out." (with the dynamics)

snyprrr

Violin Concerto

I don't think I've ever ventured beyond that classic Mutter disc. I'd be really interested in some perhaps oddball or just outstanding recommends- Mutter&Co. are pretty glossy (are they?), not saying it's bad- doesn't leave me wanting, but it does make me wonder of others' approaches.


snyprrr

This is just full blown Igor-ama Mania Month March.

snyprrr

Quote from: Scion7 on February 27, 2017, 01:55:17 PM
re: snypyyyrrrr

I am speechless.
I am without speech.
:blank:

Don't just stand there, soldier, recommend us something excellent!! $:)