Chez Stravinsky

[snyprrr]

'Dumbarton Oaks' Concerto

I just heard, again with new ears, Stravinsky conducting that Swiss-Italian Radio 'Dumbarton', which he takes at breakneck speed, and realize that all the major superstar conductors are taking this waaay too slow. Only Marriner with Los Angeles (mia), Craft, and Colin Davis breathe any life into this music. The OrpheusCE, Dutoit, Hogwood, Saraste, and yes, even Boulez (slowest middle mvmt of them all!) bloat the thing into politer music. This should be played much more like raucous Martinu. I was shocked at how the middle mvmt. gains such character when you play it that fast.

Here are the timings:

IS/CBS       4:20    4:16    5:08
IS/Sw-It      4:16    3:42!   4:43
Craft           4:18    3:48    4:57

MarrinerLA 4:20    4:30    4:40
Davis          4:38    4:27    4:57


Boulez       4:40    5:16    5:17
Orpheus    4:54    4:32    5:26
Dutoit        4:56    4:31    5:29
Hogwood  4:55    4:21    5:31

[snyprrr]

Babel
A Sermon, A Narrative, & A Prayer
The Flood
Abraham & Isaac


Oy vey!

The only one I might be able to hear again in 'Babel', but only for the Chrismassy Charlton Heston Cheese Factor supplied by... John Colicos? I didn't make it passed the first "number" of 'The Flood', I was making the "do not want" face, sorry.

The other two were equally rough for me, making me think of the cheesy 70s and the TV show 'Planet of the Apes'... maybe how IS influenced all of 'Media Music'... I'm hearing 'Columbo'... oy vey, indeed!

This was definitely the roughest chunk of unpredigested IS I've had to swallow, and it felt like Ipacac, like Social Studies in the 4th grade...

I feel traumatized

Maybe I needed to clean my palate before the Final Phase of IgorMania?... just listened again to 'Jeu' and still didn't really like it. still got work to do..

[Monsieur Croche]

Stravinsky is one of those composers whose neoclassical period often leaves me cold. Of course, the music written before it, is astonishing.

Astonishing, too, is most of the music from his neoclossical period.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Monsieur Croche]

Yes. Did not make much of an impression on me.

Stick to Wagner then. Problem solved.

Well, actually... problem not solved for everybody 

[snyprrr]

Phase One: Piano Sonata, Symphonie 'Student/ Classical Phase'

Phase Two: Firebird, Petrouchka, Le Sacre, Le Rossignol (the sum up and move on work?) 'Russian Phase'


Phase Three: Renard, The Soldier's Tale, Ragtime, Piano-Rag Music 'American/ Jazz/ Burleske Phase'


Phase FourA: Pulcinella... this is such a "radical" work, I feel I have to keep it by itself. MAVRA&NOCES holdover from Russian

Phase FourB: Symphonies of Wind Instruments, Octet, Piano Concerto, Piano Sonatat, Serenade 'White Marble NeoC Phase'


Phase Five: Oedipus, Apollo, Fairy's Kiss, Capriccio, SymPsalms, Violin Concerto 'High NeoClassic Phase'

Phase Five cont.: 2 Symphonies, Orpheus, Danses Conc., Scene de Ballet, "Hollywood" pieces 'Mainstream Phase'


Phase Six: Mass, Rake's Progress, Cantata, Shakespeare Songs 'Neo-Elizabethan Phase'

Phase 6-7 transition: Septet, Canticum Sacrum, Agon- from NeoClassic-to-Serial


Phase Seven: Threni, Movements, Variations, Requiem Canticles 'Late Serial Phase'

[Mahlerian]

Phase Six: Mass, Rake's Progress, Cantata, Shakespeare Songs 'Neo-Elizabethan Phase'

Phase 6-7 transition: Septet, Canticum Sacrum, Agon- from NeoClassic-to-Serial


Phase Seven: Threni, Movements, Variations, Requiem Canticles 'Late Serial Phase'

The Cantata and Shakespeare Songs also use some serial techniques applied to non-12-tone material, just like the Septet and Agon.

I'd also suggest that A Sermon, a Narrative, and a Prayer is a better work than you give it credit for, though the Columbia recording is far from ideal.

[snyprrr]

Reaching the end of my survey...


I'm almost embarrassed to say that 'Scenes de Ballet' is one of my new favorite pieces. But, I've also started listening to as many IS conducted performances as I can, and I'm finding he takes the prize in many works I thought he would not have be so radical in ('Dumbarton' comes to mind).

I've also had to put the brakes on... uh... PURCHASING, lol... I actually CANCELED AN ORDER!!! (Dutoit Symphonies- and then I impulsed MTT Symphonies... so, I consider that a schizo move, so, it must be time to back off and clear the air.)

I also got the Conlon/EMI 'Le Rossignol/ Renard' just to have one of the Operas around to kvetch over, hasn't arrived.


Now I'm starting to get obsessed with the small, trifling works, so, I know it has to be time to get the Big Picture.

A least now I have a concrete understanding of IS through the decades... and the difference between 'Dumbarton' and 'Concerto in D', lol, and just a clearer view of HOW to listen, and what to listen for.

Here's a sample of my Fantasy Releases:


Karajan: Symphony in C, Apollo, Circus Polka DG (omits all the bits I don't like)


Knussen: Agon, Movements, Dumbarton, Septet, Concerto in D DG or Decca

Knussen: Canticum Sacrum & Threni & Indroitus & Elegy to JFK DG


Marriner: Dumbarton, Danses Conc., Concerto  Decaa Reissue


Atherton: Agon, Le Baiser  Decca


Rattle: Firebird/Apollo-Sym3M/and something else  EMI  (THERE ARE SOOO MANY Rattle comps., but not one for meeeee)

The Cantata and Shakespeare Songs also use some serial techniques applied to non-12-tone material, just like the Septet and Agon.

I'd also suggest that A Sermon, a Narrative, and a Prayer is a better work than you give it credit for, though the Columbia recording is far from ideal.

1) of course- I just count them there because they have that "English" sound- of course, 'Agon' has an "ethnic" feel to it too, whereas, say, the 'Movements' are definitely in the next category. Yea, maybe I could have delineated a little better there.

2) I guess we wait for Knussen,... again? I mean, I did hit myself with all four of those works at once, probably not a good idea, but I can tell you it will take me a while to get back to them. I still have to try to make it through 'The Flood'. I agree that ASAN&AP had interest, but, let me just wait until the image of Charlton Heston dissolves in my membrance before I try it all alone without the others.

I was in a parking lot with my car door open listening to these works, lol,...

[snyprrr]

'Dumbarton Oaks' Concerto

I just heard, again with new ears, Stravinsky conducting that Swiss-Italian Radio 'Dumbarton', which he takes at breakneck speed, and realize that all the major superstar conductors are taking this waaay too slow. Only Marriner with Los Angeles (mia), Craft, and Colin Davis breathe any life into this music. The OrpheusCE, Dutoit, Hogwood, Saraste, and yes, even Boulez (slowest middle mvmt of them all!) bloat the thing into politer music. This should be played much more like raucous Martinu. I was shocked at how the middle mvmt. gains such character when you play it that fast.

Here are the timings:

IS/CBS       4:20    4:16    5:08
IS/Sw-It      4:16    3:42!   4:43
Craft           4:18    3:48    4:57

MarrinerLA 4:20    4:30    4:40
Davis          4:38    4:27    4:57


Boulez       4:40    5:16    5:17
Orpheus    4:54    4:32    5:26
Dutoit        4:56    4:31    5:29
Hogwood  4:55    4:21    5:31

Seriously, here is one work on which IS and Craft stand in stark relief to the competition, in terms of temp, feeling, and excitement, and actual cool soundsi. What at first sounded shocking (IS/CBS) now sounds correct, and Boulez and Norrington on up and down the roster, all sound bloated and polite by comparison. IS takes the middle movement quickly, and it makes perfect sense what he's doing, you actually hear the "note games" being played and bounced about. With the rest, this becomes a very odd "slow movement" indeed-and most, if not all, take it a minute more than the Composer, and Craft, and the effect is... catastrophic. Here is one work in which I simply do not understand what is going through these "purist" conductors' minds, when they end up with such gothic horrors. It seems now ever new version of this I find, like, say, Kegel, is even slower than the last.

The same seems to go for the Concerto in D, but here we have more successes than failures (Karajan's being the primary citation in the negative column, for his "Teutonic" rhythms)


I have also noticed this with 'Danses Concertantes'. Norrington is just genteel... it "sounds" nice and great, but, as they say, it's not Stravinsky.

An interesting point regarding IS's "conductor-proof" mus...ic..... drrr,... I'm sitting here and just lost my point... ginko, where are you??!!... totally forgot...

[Parsifal]

Karajan: Symphony in C, Apollo, Circus Polka DG (omits all the bits I don't like)

Karajan's recording of Jeu de Cartes made in the 1950's with EMI is absolutely not to be missed.

[snyprrr]

Le Baiser de la Fee

I was comparing the Village Fete between the two, and I noticed that Jarvi hit that one climax @2:30? with full Tchaikovskian Romanticism, whereas Knussen came off as very mannered and, well, NeoClassic, as if he were being very trimmed and pruned and observing every minute detail. Jarvi's having a ball, on the other hand.

Everyone says Knussen's is the "most correct". And I can hear why this would be. So, now, my question- is Jarvi's approach wrong? I mean, I'm feeling things with him I'm not even thinking about with Knussen's more methodological approach. Jarvi is playing it for all it's worth; Knussen is doing Science.

Is Jarvi valid, or would he be "interpreting Stravinsky", whereas Knussen is conducting "perfect Stravinsky". Is Jarvi conducting Tchaikovsky? Since both seem to have a lot of other strengths in common, including tempi, the "expressive" quality is the only difference, and it is actually quite big.

Frankly, the two seem to compliment one another. I do appreciate Knussen's restraint, but I do love Jarvi's joy!


eh?

[snyprrr]

The crowd is hushed as we await the World snyprrr Premiere of Stravinsky's first opera, 'Le Rossignol', or, as it's known by it's true Russian title, 'The Nightingale'. The orchestra is that of the Paris Opera, and our conductor is James Conlon. Natalie Dessay stars.

snyprrr doest really know what he's in for, so, we'll be monitoring his reactions, here at the MSNBC Entertainment Desk. Hello, I'm Dick Butkis, and this is my colleague, James Proctor. (Hello, all) So, we're almost at curtain. The air is charged with the thrill of discovery!

Please take this quick pre-Premiere 10 minute Ante-Act, and freshen up that cognac, or... do whatever it is you do ...


Quick, it's about to begin!

shhh.....

[snyprrr]

The crowd is hushed as we await the World snyprrr Premiere of Stravinsky's first opera, 'Le Rossignol', or, as it's known by it's true Russian title, 'The Nightingale'. The orchestra is that of the Paris Opera, and our conductor is James Conlon. Natalie Dessay stars.

snyprrr doest really know what he's in for, so, we'll be monitoring his reactions, here at the MSNBC Entertainment Desk. Hello, I'm Dick Butkis, and this is my colleague, James Proctor. (Hello, all) So, we're almost at curtain. The air is charged with the thrill of discovery!

Please take this quick pre-Premiere 10 minute Ante-Act, and freshen up that cognac, or... do whatever it is you do ...


Quick, it's about to begin!

shhh.....

OK, a nice, atmospheric opening, reminiscent of the double basses in Firebird. I start thinking deep dark green,... woods,... swaying greenery,... it definitely seems to be "night".

Oooo.... there's Szymanowski is one, rapturous early crescendo,... now I'm hearing Sibelius...

...singing..

It's a man,... pretty good, interesting, ... he's a fisherman, and I can hear him throwing his reel, IS likes the "sound effects"! It's definitely a little understand, but I can tell it's Opera.

Now the lady is singing... vocalese,... this singer has a little nasal quality in the high note, but I can tell the part must be very taxing.


I just finished a more crowded scene near the middle of Act1. Now the man is singing again,... he must have lost the lady-bird?


ACT2

Oh, OK,... here's the Chant du Rossingnol music! But with full vocals! Here, let me Post, and listen more...

[snyprrr]

OK, a nice, atmospheric opening, reminiscent of the double basses in Firebird. I start thinking deep dark green,... woods,... swaying greenery,... it definitely seems to be "night".

Oooo.... there's Szymanowski is one, rapturous early crescendo,... now I'm hearing Sibelius...

...singing..

It's a man,... pretty good, interesting, ... he's a fisherman, and I can hear him throwing his reel, IS likes the "sound effects"! It's definitely a little understand, but I can tell it's Opera.

Now the lady is singing... vocalese,... this singer has a little nasal quality in the high note, but I can tell the part must be very taxing.


I just finished a more crowded scene near the middle of Act1. Now the man is singing again,... he must have lost the lady-bird?


ACT2

Oh, OK,... here's the Chant du Rossingnol music! But with full vocals! Here, let me Post, and listen more...

I'm just starting the mechanical bird music ending Act2. Yea, Act2 had lots of interest with the music itself, and the singing just worked along... this music is definitely is stark contrast to the opening, written before Firebird, and this, written after Sacre. It really makes for a fantasic... phantasmagorical ...

The sense of a fantasy play,... TV drama 1973... very cool mood... almost in an underground cavern...

ACT3

Nice moody music with offstage chorus of ghosts! Cool!

Whatever nasal quality the lady singer had at first is now gone. She sounds pretty good...

I keep thinking Miraculous Mandarin, but it's a different story... Europeans imitating Asian... le vogue...


Well...

I'm nearing the ending "solemn march"... this Act3 has been quite subdued, going back to the earlier style in Act1. But the music is very spare here. And it... well, now it's over,... that "summing up song" kind of made me feel like, hey, isn't there supposed to  be more? How can this be an Opera if it's not 2 hours long?

Odd.


But, overall, the Act2 music really attracts one, and the Act1 build up is nice. Act3 starts off well, but then I start to wonder, What happened? It's just over. I thought, with such good music in Act2, there's got to be more of a payoff with Act4 and Act5. So,... huh...

That felt more like a Song Cycle in Three Parts, or something. I definitely heard the Debussy/Szymanowski, forest folk tale atmosphere. I found it easier to like than either Oedipus or Persephone, which i thought intereresting gg


So, there was my 2nd Opera (Die Soldaten first), yaay!!

The part that gets me doing a standing ovation when the opera is still going 

Yea, as soon as it started, I was like, yay! I'll have to listen again...

[snyprrr]

Song of the Volga Boatman
Suite No.2
Suite No.1
Tango
Circus Polka
4 Moods
Scherzo a la Russe
The Star Spangled Banner
Greeting Prelude
8 Miniatures
Fanfare for a New Theatre
Canon (on a Popular Russian Tune)

I'm not sure what I've left out of this grouping. A lot of this music tickles the same bone that Ives's music of a similar vein does, it's all just a lot of fun.I really like the 'Greeting Prelude', it has that skyscraper-in-a-minute energy, not a real trifle in my view- he seems to have put a lot of care into it. And the 'Circus Polka', and I only hear this explicitly in the Karajan, has what sounds hilariously like goose-stepping naaazis.

And I just reacquainted myself with the 'Scherzo a la Russe' yesterday, and was again taken aback by my ignorant prejudgment of it- to me it didn't really sound as much Russian, as "1940s"- always interesting how the Russian and American Composers were claiming the same language as their own (I specifically hear this between Roy Harris and Shostakovich).


The '2 Suites' and the '4 Etudes', all taken from the string quartet and piano pieces, just don't do much for me, but the do give a good orchestra the opportunity to shine in a great recording. It's just that... meh... I'd rather just hear all these pieces together on one recital, with, like, Chailly and the Concertgebouw: that way, it's not really about the music anymore (specifically in these pieces), it's just the glories of music-making.

Finally, the 'Canon' I find magisterial, but I see here that MTT takes :49, and some others take 1:20- the MTT seems to me the way to go for excitement; it's not bad the slower way, but, hey, why not record two versions?


I like Stravinsky's Miniatures a lot better than some other Composers' trifles- good show!

[snyprrr]

And so we will be bringing IgorMania2017 to a close tonight. Nothing is planned, per se. I'm trying to stave of exhaustion, and I see the community has had their fill and isn't interested at the moment. Yes, I believe we are a group that goes from one ever burgeoning carcass to the next, only to come back later and find fresh meat!


I thought I did well, Buying wise- only a couple of (maybe) mistakes. I also, thankfully, didn't feel the need to Buy EVERYTHING!! Satisfaction is an odd premise, indeed, hmm!




In terms of Personal Evolution, I can't see how he is not the Premiere Composer of the 20th Century, with the lode of Avant Composers spewing forth from his self inflicted wound in 1966 of "non-Composition". And, because his Works List is practically quite small, all of my other fav Composers still have a good chance to make a comeback in my favor.

Well, I haven't heard the charge of "Fraud!" leveled against him,... seems legit.


I sit here, surrounding by the manifestation of IgorMania: three separate piles- 1909-1919 (minus the other, previous SacrePile, over here to my left). 1930-1948. 1943-1966. I struggle what to listen to for Closing Night...

[snyprrr]

Damiens/Adda and Antony Pay/Chailly-Decca play it swell enough, but, what's it doing that should be noting? Am I just at the complete other end of the "NeoClassic xplosionEof1919" that it just sounds like noodling? Was it riotous upon Premiere?... I can't see that... are they just meant to be played by its dedicatee, or, are they intended to be something... more?...

[snyprrr]

I believe I have finally gotten to the bottom and back concerning the ins and outs of the hot mess that is the current state of Stravinsky: The Robert Craft Edition.

As we all know, he embarked on his Cycle in 1992, and, to be clear, he basically completed one Cycle, not Complete: no 'Le Chant du Rossignol', 'Mavra', or any of the early works, save the 'Fireworks'. But, and including many rarities, I counted, and he really did basically cover the Cycle.

THEN

Then, concurrently, beginning with, I believe, the Koch 'Pulcinella' (unless it's the suite, but I'm pretty sure it's the whole thing), a 2nd Cycle begins to emerge.

The old 11 Volume MusicMasters set ended, with most of Vols. 10-11 still to be reissued, including much else. But, I'm starting to think we've forgotten those fist few Volumes.. What I found was that about 80% of Vols. 1-3 we RE-RECORDED with a variety of sources. All of the MusicMasters series uses the St.Luke orchestra, up until about Volume 8. Then it's the Philharmonia, which continues, along with the LSO, when Koch continues the Cycle.

So, anyhow, here, at first, are all the works that Craft recorded twice, and please correct me.


MusicMasters Vol.1

Fanfare for A New Theatre
Oedipus Rex (remade on Koch)
Requiem Canticles (remade on Naxos in 2006?!)
Symphony of Psalms (remade on Koch-Naxos)
Symphony in Three Movements (remade on Koch-Naxos)
The Rite of Spring (remade on Koch-Naxos; then, again remade a third time on Naxos)


MusicMasters Vol.2

Symphony in C (remade on Koch-Naxos)
Russian Peasant Choruses
Les Noces (remade on Koch-Naxos)
Pulcinella (remade on Koch-Naxos)


MusicMasters Vol.3

Persephone
King of the Stars (remade on Koch, but this rec. was reissued on Naxos)
Symphonies of Wind Instruments (remade on Koch-Naxos)
Concertino (remade on Koch)
Octet reissued on Naxos

The only others, I believe, from the rest of the MM series that were actually remade later, are, 'The Soldier's Tale', Violin Concerto, and, it appears,' Abraham and Isaac'. The 'Soldat' on the Naxos reissue is the MM. And, of course, most of the solo Piano, and the smaller Chamber Music (Epitaphium, Double Canon) doesn't count here.


So, mostly, none of those earlier MM versions were used in the Naxos reissues. So, that's a pretty sizable 2nd Cycle starting there!, but, have been able to compare? I think I was able to find the 1st mvmt. of Symphony in 3M on YT, and, it was very hard to tell, but it seemed the later, Koch-Naxos Philharmonia version, had just a touch finer sound. But, the interpretation seemed like it could have been the same- it was very hard to tell, but it seemed two different performances.


Anyhow, I thought it was exciting... Karl?

[Karl Henning]

And so we will be bringing IgorMania2017 to a close tonight.

But no, 'tis only the beginning.

[snyprrr]

But no, 'tis only the beginning.

currently in the weeds with Craft, oy vey- did you check that previous Post with all the duplicates?

btw- the Iwaki 'Agon'... one of those you gotta crank it up to 10, 1989 Virgin recordings... no distortion at 10, very nice, great musical performance, but I'm shocked shocked I tell you that engineers at the dawn of time there made records this way... I guess Telarc influence?, but, the bass drum, at 10, sounds just fine.

I just order Michael Stern conducting the Tonhalle Zurich on Denon (Firebird 1945, Agon, Jeu de Cartes). I'm really taking a chance here that the Denon reputation for spectacular recordings, with a (how are they? all I see is Zinman Beethoven/Mahler) decent European orchestra... I hope.

Then there's this maddening Venzago recording on Pan, with the Basel bunch, doing Ode, Agon, Monumentum, Piano Concerto, also from 1995... but, it's expensive OOP and I don't know how to read Venzago's way with IS.






other curious finds: Andras Mihaly/Hungaroton- Soldat, Renard, Ragtime, Japanese, solo clarinet...

[snyprrr]

Rolling on the floor laughing after reading some of Iggy's Mussolini comments... oy,


frankly, quite refreshing ,... no wonder he didn't get any film jobs, lol