Chez Stravinsky

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

How does he handle the parlando passage? I have always cringed to hear that in the Craft recording.

Makes me cringe too. Gielen is smoother and more natural-sounding.

[greg]

I finally ordered that box set. Only $40 for 22 CDs.  0:)
What should I expect? I already have the recording of him conducting the Symphony in C, 3 movements, and Psalms, and I couldn't even tell the recording was from the 60s! Is the rest of the set like that? I've heard that the Oedipus Rex recording isn't good, though.

[karlhenning]

I finally ordered that box set. Only $40 for 22 CDs.  0:)

Outstanding!

What should I expect? I already have the recording of him conducting the Symphony in C, 3 movements, and Psalms, and I couldn't even tell the recording was from the 60s! Is the rest of the set like that? I've heard that the Oedipus Rex recording isn't good, though.

You've many hours of delightful listening ahead of you!

(I don't recall offhand any disappointment with the Oe. R. . . . .)

[greg]

Good to hear. 

[greg]

Well, I've gone through quite a few of the CDs, but still have several to listen to.


I've listened to The Song of the Nightingale twice now, and it's just a jaw-dropping piece. I'm surprised it's not more popular than it is. The orchestration is unbelievable- and he uses every technique in the book at that time. He even has major parts for violin to play in a high position on the G String, without glissando or vibrato, and it sounds like a completely different instrument.

A couple others that have caught my attention are:
Les Noces (what a sound!),

Renard (strange attraction to this one- not sure what it is, maybe it has something to do with me listening to the opening score example and explanation of his heterophonic technique... I don't know. Just listening to it gives me this incredible feeling, like nostalgia, even though I haven't heard it before.... but what if I have?) 


Persephone (just pure beauty, all there is to say)

[greg]

Also, I've always been curious...

how exactly did both the musical languages of Prokofiev and Stravinsky develop? I've read 2 of Prokofiev's biographies before, but none of Stravinsky, so I'm pretty lost when it comes to him.

Is the best explanation actually the simplest?- that they both just happened to be progressive-minded composers that were more directly influenced by guys like Rimsky-Korsakov, Rachmaninov, and Scriabin? Where did both of them get the desire to push music as far as they did at that time? Is Scriabin the most influential in their progressive thinking, even if their styles are completely different? When Prokofiev premiered the Schoenberg op.11 in Russia, it sounded like he didn't have any sort of connection or interest in it, other than a curiosity. Where do they both get the idea to be so daring?

[ChamberNut]

I've heard very little Stravinsky, but just recently got the Violin Concerto.  It's incredible! 

[Mark G. Simon]

Tonight I'm going to the Kennedy Center to hear Gil Shaham play the Stravinsky Violin Concerto with the National Symphony. The program also has the Divertimento from The Fairy's Kiss, a suite from Kurt Weill's Mahagonny and the Overture, Waltz and Finale from Powder Her Face by Ades. The conductor is Hannu Lintu.

[greg]

Hannu Lintu

Finnish?

[sul G]

Who, Mark? Yes, I presume he must have done.

[Mark G. Simon]

Finnish?

Very much so. I was sitting in one of the chorister seats, meaning the section behind the orchestra where the chorus sits when they do works with chorus. I enjoy sitting there because you get to see the musicians at work, look over their shoulders and read the music on their stands, plus you get to see the conductor's facial expressions. Lintu makes a lot of odd faces when he conducts, often looking like Jerry Lewis.

This was a great concert, by the way. Shaham played his heart out on the two "arias" of the Violin Concerto, and worked up a very energetic ending to the finale. The piece sounds more "severe" in live performance because it's scored so thinly that sound is only eminating from isolated pockets of the stage.  The Fairy's Kiss is a colorful showcase for the full wind section. You don't realize, until you see the musicians performing, just how much time the strings sit there with nothing to play. He only uses them when it really counts. The ensemble never sounds undernourished, though. This ballet is probably just a little too long to be played in full, but I feel that the Divertimento just doesn't do it justice. Too many of my favorite passages have wound up on the cutting room floor, and it never works its way up to the emotional core of the score.  The full ballet climaxes with a more or less intact arrangement of "None but the Lonely Heart", the only Tchaikovsky material to survive the Stravinskyan deconstructing and rethinking process. I can understand why Stravinksy didn't want to include such a recognizable Tchaikovsky hit in his own suite, but without it, the music never completes its dramatic and emotional arc, leaving the listener (this listener in any case) unsatisfied.

[greg]

Who, Mark? Yes, I presume he must have done.

For some reason, I laughed at that even though it was awful...

Very much so. I was sitting in one of the chorister seats, meaning the section behind the orchestra where the chorus sits when they do works with chorus. I enjoy sitting there because you get to see the musicians at work, look over their shoulders and read the music on their stands, plus you get to see the conductor's facial expressions. Lintu makes a lot of odd faces when he conducts, often looking like Jerry Lewis.

This was a great concert, by the way. Shaham played his heart out on the two "arias" of the Violin Concerto, and worked up a very energetic ending to the finale. The piece sounds more "severe" in live performance because it's scored so thinly that sound is only eminating from isolated pockets of the stage.  The Fairy's Kiss is a colorful showcase for the full wind section. You don't realize, until you see the musicians performing, just how much time the strings sit there with nothing to play. He only uses them when it really counts. The ensemble never sounds undernourished, though. This ballet is probably just a little too long to be played in full, but I feel that the Divertimento just doesn't do it justice. Too many of my favorite passages have wound up on the cutting room floor, and it never works its way up to the emotional core of the score.  The full ballet climaxes with a more or less intact arrangement of "None but the Lonely Heart", the only Tchaikovsky material to survive the Stravinskyan deconstructing and rethinking process. I can understand why Stravinksy didn't want to include such a recognizable Tchaikovsky hit in his own suite, but without it, the music never completes its dramatic and emotional arc, leaving the listener (this listener in any case) unsatisfied.

I never even heard of chorister seats until I read this. Interesting... think of the ways you could distract fellow audience members while the orchestra is playing a piece you don't like. 

The piece sounds more "severe" in live performance because it's scored so thinly that sound is only eminating from isolated pockets of

the stage.
Must be awkward performing some of Stravinsky (the thinner-scored stuff) and pointillistic stuff like Webern. I suppose everyone has to have the guts of a soloist for it to all work out...

[Mark G. Simon]

Must be awkward performing some of Stravinsky (the thinner-scored stuff) and pointillistic stuff like Webern. I suppose everyone has to have the guts of a soloist for it to all work out...

Believe me, every orchestral wind player has to have the guts of a soloist, for all music!

[greg]

Believe me, every orchestral wind player has to have the guts of a soloist, for all music!

...with very poorly orchestrated music as an exception? Like when they add an orchestra to a popular music song so you can't even hear the winds? 

[Mark G. Simon]

...with very poorly orchestrated music as an exception? Like when they add an orchestra to a popular music song so you can't even hear the winds? 

When you're on stage and you and you alone are responsible for playing a specific part, and the conductor expects you to play it absolutely perfectly, not too loud, not too soft, with the right expression, just as he's rehearsed it, you've got to have nerves of steel.

[max]

I wish I understood Stravinsky better. I almost feel like an idiot with so many brilliant minds expounding his genius. I listened to many of the works mentioned here but the ones I have the most respect for is when he borrowed from someone else.

I guess I must be some kind of musical nematoid!

[jowcol]

Well, I've gone through quite a few of the CDs, but still have several to listen to.


I've listened to The Song of the Nightingale twice now, and it's just a jaw-dropping piece. I'm surprised it's not more popular than it is. The orchestration is unbelievable- and he uses every technique in the book at that time. He even has major parts for violin to play in a high position on the G String, without glissando or vibrato, and it sounds like a completely different instrument.

A couple others that have caught my attention are:
Les Noces (what a sound!),

Renard (strange attraction to this one- not sure what it is, maybe it has something to do with me listening to the opening score example and explanation of his heterophonic technique... I don't know. Just listening to it gives me this incredible feeling, like nostalgia, even though I haven't heard it before.... but what if I have?) 


Persephone (just pure beauty, all there is to say)

Those are both winners.  Les Noces is, to my ears, one of the greatest works of the last Century.  I was just listening to Nightingale again, and really love it.

[Guido]

Is the Song of the Nightingale related to the opera, The Nightingale?

[Mark G. Simon]

Is the Song of the Nightingale related to the opera, The Nightingale?

Yes, sir. It's basically an orchestral suite from the opera.

[Guido]

Oh nice, I've always been a fan of the opera - must check out the suite.