Chez Stravinsky

Started by karlhenning, April 09, 2007, 08:24:18 AM

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Quote from: James on November 14, 2010, 10:27:24 AM



Conductors frequently get the balance wrong between soloist and orchestra in this work, which is why it often fails in the concert hall. In Mutter's fresh and invigorating performance, the balance sounds just right (easier to achieve in the studio) and both soloist and orchestra exude enjoyment.

I would be curious to know what performances of the VC are you comparing?

Leon

Quote from: Herman on August 18, 2010, 12:00:04 AM
Apart from the Firebird and the Sacre I think it's fair to say that Stravinsky is really out of it now.

Not around my house.

:)

Among the composers of the 20th+ century - his is the music that I listen to the most, but the Stravinsky I listen to the least are those works you mentioned.

karlhenning

Quote from: Velimir on August 18, 2010, 01:38:55 AM
There was a thread around here a year or so back that basically expressed this view - that Stravinsky had become a classic but in a very narrow sense, with his reputation based on a mere handful of works.

On the other hand, it's not just the early ballets that get played; some other stuff, like Symphony of Psalms and Symphony in Three Movements, do get played fairly often. But those late works have been neglected ever since they were new - so maybe not much has changed after all.

Italics mine. And how often need they be presented, not to be out of it?

The Symphony of Psalms has been done with the BSO two seasons recently (IIRC); Oedipus Rex is on for January;  in recent seasons both the 1911 and 1947 versions of Petrushka have rung out in Symphony Hall (in principle aligning with Herman's comment, though he omitted it in between L'oiseau de feu and Le sacre); I've heard the Symphonies of wind instruments in Jordan Hall.  It seems to me that Stravinsky's status as a Classic means, partly, that there needn't be fervent championship of the music.

The late works will suffer from two fronts, meseems.  They're rather too thorny for practically any symphony orchestra season;  but they're already accorded canonical status, so they probably won't get much purchase among avowedly new-music outfits, either.

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Quote from: James on November 16, 2010, 08:32:20 AM
I've heard many throughout the years ... and it's this one that I found the most striking & enjoyable overall, in fact ... everything on the disc is wonderful.

Yes, the whole disc is good, but I bought it for the Dutilleux performance, which I believe this disc is the premiere recording of this work. I really wish Dutilleux composed more, but he is such a perfectionist.

Scarpia

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 16, 2010, 08:43:44 AMThe late works will suffer from two fronts, meseems.  They're rather too thorny for practically any symphony orchestra season;  but they're already accorded canonical status, so they probably won't get much purchase among avowedly new-music outfits, either.

Well, late Stravinsky gets no love here either.  The planned discussion of Agon is still a non-starter, after a year of postponement.

karlhenning

Quote from: Scarpia on November 16, 2010, 10:45:54 AM
Well, late Stravinsky gets no love here either.  The planned discussion of Agon is still a non-starter, after a year of postponement.

My fault, largely. October proved woolier than I had expected, and November has followed suit.  I decided that I am waiting until I have as much leisure as will allow me to locate my score, before volunteering to take that thread back up.

Scarpia

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 16, 2010, 10:48:15 AM
My fault, largely. October proved woolier than I had expected, and November has followed suit.  I decided that I am waiting until I have as much leisure as will allow me to locate my score, before volunteering to take that thread back up.

Ok well, I listened to the piece last week.  Based on my reaction, I'm expecting it will get it's next turn in the player sometime in autumn 2018.   :P

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on August 16, 2010, 03:49:18 PM
HELP!

I have spent all day listening to Late IS on YouTube, and, finding that I'm liking it a lot, am horrified to find a dismal (bear with me) selection of extant recordings.

The pieces in question would be:

Cantata

Canticum Sacrum

Threni*

Requiem Canticles



(and, to a lesser extent)

Variations "Aldous Huxley" (plenty of versions)

in Memoriam Dylan Thomas*

Introitus (TS Eliot)*

Elegy JFK



I know that the Mass/Noces and Mass/Noces/Cantata pairings are pretty common (any favs?), but the rest are just scattered all over the place, with Threni practically unavailable :o. This piece really impressed me.

The rest of this music all deserves to have at least three classic recordings a piece (and I mean all 8 pieces,...together!,...plus the Late Chamber Works!), but, as I'm checking, it's pffft.

Why hasn't anyone recorded Threni and the Requiem Canticles on DG or something, with,...or,....I mean, why not, at least, those 4 main works together? ??? It seems to make no sense.

There's a Philips disc (de Leeuw), a Koch disc, the Hyperion/Noces-Wood disc, the Knussen disc,...and,....what else?,...but that's really about it. And they just have 1-3 of the pieces per disc, usually with the rest of IS's choral works.

So,...what's up with this? :(

I just ordered the 2cd set of 'Sacred Works' on Sony. Where was this when I was whining? Anyhow, it has ALL the works one could want,... and I got it pretty cheap (11GBP). Wow, that just popped out of nowhere (1991??). How did I miss that that? Anyhow, this and the Mustonen/Van Kuelen set should do me. Can't wait to listen to Threni.

lescamil

Quote from: James on December 13, 2010, 05:02:52 PM
Enjoying some live radio broatcast bootlegs of ..

  • Abraham & Isaac (perf. David Wilson Johnson, Radio Kamerokest, Philippe Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale)
  • Danses Concertantes (perf. Radio Kamer Orkest, Peter Eotvos)
  • Memorian Dylan Thomas (perf. Alesky Grigorev, ASKO Ensemble, Oliver Knussen)
  • Symphonies for Wind Instruments (perf. Radio Filharmonisch Orkest, Peter Eotvos)
  • Symphony In 3 Movements (perf. Orchestra of the Mariinski Theatre St. Petersburg, Valery Gergiev)

Quote from: James on December 13, 2010, 06:15:23 PM
And some more ..

  • Movements (perf. Sviatoslav Richter, Ensemble InterContemporain, Pierre Boulez)
  • Mass & Choral Variationen (perf. ASKO/Schoenberg Ensemble, Reinbert de Leeuw,
    Nederlands Kamerkoor, Capella Amsterdam, Daniel Reuss)
  • Movements (perf. Nicolas Hodges, ASKO/Schoenberg Ensemble, Oliver Knussen)
  • Monumentum pro Gesualdo (perf. Radio Kamer Orkest, Peter Eotvos)

Let me guess, you got these from Dime a Dozen? I might check some of them out.
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snyprrr

Quote from: James on February 28, 2011, 02:51:20 PM


WORKS FOR PIANO & ORCHESTRA


Actually just listening to this cd!

I just fell into a Stravinsky oasis, and have been listening almost exclusively to IS. Continued...

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on February 13, 2011, 05:17:56 PM
I just ordered the 2cd set of 'Sacred Works' on Sony. Where was this when I was whining? Anyhow, it has ALL the works one could want,... and I got it pretty cheap (11GBP). Wow, that just popped out of nowhere (1991??). How did I miss that that? Anyhow, this and the Mustonen/Van Kuelen set should do me. Can't wait to listen to Threni.

Just got the 'Sacred Works' 2cd/Sony, which has everything except the Requiem Canticles. Having been filtered through Xenakis, IS now sounds so natural to me, especially in Canticum Sacrum and Threni. Threni, especially, is deliciously cold and chilly and spare, reminding me a little of Xenakis's Medea in its ancient sound. There are some slightly freaky sounding low ostinatos that give this music a strange fruitiness I find compellingly perverse.

I also have the 2cd/DoubleDecca which contains Ashkenazy's survey of Chamber Music. I like the very rare Septet, which has the same medieval charm as the Cantata. Then we have the 1'30" Epitaphium, Webernesque in the extreme. And I'm also a fan of the Concerto for Two Pianos (must hear the Sonata for same).

Rounding out the trifles is 'Stravinsky in America' by MTT/RCA, which, apparently, contains not the most high energy Agon. I am truly becoming interested in that Gielen disc!


All this reminded me of my very favorite 'last note' in music: the last string chord at the end of Symphony in C, right after all the wind (ing) down. Ahh,... that very last chord, especially the way it hovers in the IS/CBS version (the regular, typical blue cd),... makes me feel such feelings! Anyone concur?


So, I'm on a real IS kick here, ask me a question, haha!! ;)


karlhenning

Hardly anything seems to me more musically natural, than falling in with Stravinsky for an extended listen!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Apollon on March 01, 2011, 03:27:11 PM
Hardly anything seems to me more musically natural, than falling in with Stravinsky for an extended listen!

I know how you feel, Karl because I feel the same way. I can listen to Stravinsky at any time of the day. His music never bores me or makes my mind wander. He, like two of my other absolute favorite composers, Ravel and Bartok, keeps me on my toes. And like Ravel and Bartok, Stravinsky was so remarkably consistent with his music.

I'm making my way through the set on Naxos with Robert Craft. Gorgeous playing and top-notch conducting from one of the closest people to Stravinsky in his later period.

Mirror Image

By the way, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the instrument is in the beginning of the ballet Agon which sounds like some kind of synthesized instrument (which I know it's not, it just sounds like one)? Do you guys know what I'm talking about?

Mirror Image

#374
Quote from: ChamberNut on December 07, 2009, 09:30:05 AM
Took a break from 'the big box', and now went back to it yesterday and today.

New discoveries (first listens) are:

Disc 11 - Miniature Masterpieces  (Loved all of these)
Disc 10 - Concerto for Piano and Wind Instruments, Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra (loved these)
Disc 10 - (5) Movements for Piano and Orchestra (did not enjoy)

The more I'm diving into this box, the following is becoming glaringly clear:

I virtually love to bits and pieces all of the works of Stravinsky's pre-serialist late phase.   :)
I do not enjoy the later works from the so called serialist stage.   :(

Stravinsky's later works take some time to warm to, but if one is persistent, then they reveal their beauty in time.

By the way, I love that "Miniature Masterpieces" disc from the big Sony Stravinsky set (the whole box set is extremely good and a good bargain to boot). I particularly loved Greeting Prelude. It's only a minute long, but within that minute there is such exuberance and joyfulness on display.

Mirror Image

By the way, Karl. I love your new username and more importantly your avatar.  8)

lescamil

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 02, 2011, 08:13:11 PM
By the way, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the instrument is in the beginning of the ballet Agon which sounds like some kind of synthesized instrument (which I know it's not, it just sounds like one)? Do you guys know what I'm talking about?

Which one? The instrumentation of Agon is pretty much a standard orchestra, with the addition of a mandolin (probably what you are thinking of), which is coupled with the harp at the beginning.
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#377
Quote from: lescamil on March 02, 2011, 09:42:11 PM
Which one? The instrumentation of Agon is pretty much a standard orchestra, with the addition of a mandolin (probably what you are thinking of), which is coupled with the harp at the beginning.

That might be it, mandolin in conjunction with the harp. What a beautiful sound! Almost synthetic.

Mirror Image

Let's get some more discussion about the great Stravinsky going on here:

What are your favorite lesser known works?

Here are mine (off the top of my mind):

Chant du rossignol
Apollon Musagete
Agon
Orpheus
Jeu de cartes
The Fairy's Kiss
Scenes de Ballet
Scherzo a la Russe
Ebony Concerto
Dumbarton Oaks
Four Studies
Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra
Violin Concerto
(hardly ever discussed as a major concerti but it is to my ears)

Brahmsian

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 03, 2011, 11:02:53 AM
Let's get some more discussion about the great Stravinsky going on here:

What are your favorite lesser known works?

Here are mine (off the top of my mind):

Chant du rossignol
Apollon Musagete
Agon
Orpheus
Jeu de cartes
The Fairy's Kiss
Scenes de Ballet
Scherzo a la Russe
Ebony Concerto
Dumbarton Oaks
Four Studies
Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra
Violin Concerto
(hardly ever discussed as a major concerti but it is to my ears)

Apollon Musagete
Agon
Orpheus
Jeu de cartes
Ebony Concerto
Dumbarton Oaks
Violin Concerto

These are definitely some of my favorites, along with Petruskha, ROS and all the symphonies.  I'm not as keen on some of the vocal works.  For sure, Abraham & Isaac is my least favorite of all Stravinsky compositions.