Chez Stravinsky

[snyprrr]

From a Stravinsky newbie like me:

I'm a little frustrated by finding that many of his compositions never find "release".

Most--if not all--his stuff is wonderfully tense, weird and strange, and all those otherworldly chords are awesome. But I find his pieces just race into darkness and disappear rather than resolve/dissolve into something beautifully bright--a conclusion or redemption, if you will. Although I enjoy Stravinsky very much and am constantly gobsmacked by his imagination and skill, I sometimes wish he would have gone that extra mile to create something starting from the ground and going all the way up, so to speak.

Am I nuts or do others feel something similar?

maybe it's the ritualistic aspects that mitigate against traditional tension-release?

[Linus]

Give a quick listen to his Scherzo a la Russe (very short -- c.a. 4 minutes). Hard not to crack a smile while listening to it. The ending is a hoot! Here's my favorite recording of the piece:

If you like that, then I bet you'd like his Violin Concerto, too -- particularly the first movement ('toccata').

My favorite Stravinsky is Agon. It might be worth a listen for you, too, though I'd be surprised if you liked it immediately based off of your comment above (BTW, I didn't like it until I saw the fun in it).

Thanks for your input, but I was hoping to find a piece of his that goes from typical Stravinsky tension to a conclusion, not a bright-sounding piece that seems to already have found "redemption" on the first note (which is the case with the scherzo and the VC toccata, IMHO). (Agon is a bit too serial for me to handle at the moment.)

maybe it's the ritualistic aspects that mitigate against traditional tension-release?

Yes, that seems quite plausible, cool observation. I wonder, was he the first composer to do that?

[North Star]

Thanks for your input, but I was hoping to find a piece of his that goes from typical Stravinsky tension to a conclusion, not a bright-sounding piece that seems to already have found "redemption" on the first note.

The Firebird.

[chadfeldheimer]

Here's an interesting excerpt from the Walsh book:

(from Stravinsky, The Second Exile:  France and America, 1934-1971, pp.342

Now, considering the recent discussion mulling the question of Stockhausen supposedly influencing Igor Fyodorich.  This paragraph is about Agon, and mentions Stockhausen;  for the lazy reader, that will "mean" influence!  In fact, it is simply part of the narrative of Stravinsky's reconciling his highly individual application of serial technique (which was not a specific influence of either Boulez or Stockhausen, but goes back to Robert Craft "introducing" Igor Fyodorovich to the music of Webern), with the "vibrant physicality" which was always one of the hallmarks of Stravinsky's work.

Specifically, this paragraph indicates, if anything, Boulez and Stockhausen as "negative exemplars," for the physicality is found (according to the text) only "spasmodically, if at all" in these works which Stravinsky was known to have heard.

Did Stockhausen, Suuuuper Geenius, influence Stravinsky?   If there is evidence, it has not yet surfaced . . . .

Just for the case that months after the mentioned discussion there is still some interest. Lately I accidentally refound the source on which my statement that Stockhausen was an influence on Stravinsky's masterpiece "Agon" was based.

"It really is in groups," said Stravinsky approvingly of Stockhausen's Gruppen for three orchestras (Memories 118-20 [UK], 112-14 [US]). Along with the wind quintet Zeitmasse, it is a score from which he took a great many ideas in orchestration and form. During the fifties the admiration was mutual: Stockhausen and Boulez both adopted the cimbalom, and Stravinsky's use of the piano in Agon as a bold melody sonority rather than a harmony instrument is one of several features of Gruppen he expressly admires.

(from  Experiencing Stravinsky: A Listener's Companion,Robin Maconie, p.205)

[EigenUser]

Thanks for your input, but I was hoping to find a piece of his that goes from typical Stravinsky tension to a conclusion, not a bright-sounding piece that seems to already have found "redemption" on the first note (which is the case with the scherzo and the VC toccata, IMHO). (Agon is a bit too serial for me to handle at the moment.)

Yes, that seems quite plausible, cool observation. I wonder, was he the first composer to do that?

Oh. In that case, I would recommend Agon even more, except you say it is too serial (my problem with it at first, too).

Not to harp on Agon, but the way I ended up looking at it was as a 'safe' journey through the often-scary world of serialism. It starts off fairly bright, goes into an austere "Webern Symphony mode", but ends even brighter than it started. Kind of like a haunted house ride at an amusement park. It might be scary at times, but nothing can hurt you .

The Firebird.

While I don't really like it, this is definitely a good recommendation based off of what you are looking for.

[Ken B]

From a Stravinsky newbie like me:

I'm a little frustrated by finding that many of his compositions never find "release".

Most--if not all--his stuff is wonderfully tense, weird and strange, and all those otherworldly chords are awesome. But I find his pieces just race into darkness and disappear rather than resolve/dissolve into something beautifully bright--a conclusion or redemption, if you will. Although I enjoy Stravinsky very much and am constantly gobsmacked by his imagination and skill, I sometimes wish he would have gone that extra mile to create something starting from the ground and going all the way up, so to speak.

Am I nuts or do others feel something similar?

Dumbarton Oaks
Ebony Concerto
Symphony in C
Jeu de Cartes

[Jo498]

Not sure if Firebird already shows what you mean with "Stravinsky-typical tensions". Maybe Petrushka will be a better option.
I support the recs for the symphony in C and the symphony in 3 movements, maybe also the symphony of Psalms but I remember that I was rather puzzled at my first encounter with the latter piece, it's certainly not your typical "praise the lord with harps and cymbals" mood.

[kishnevi]

Speaking of Petrushka,  I gave this a first listen last night.  I am not familiar enough with the concertante works to give a valid opinion, but Petrushka was possibly the best performance of that work I have heard to date.

[Jo498]

The three extraits for piano are a quite different thing from the original whole ballet, though... Both are easy to like, I think, compared with a lot of other Stravinsky.

[Linus]

Oh. In that case, I would recommend Agon even more, except you say it is too serial (my problem with it at first, too).

Not to harp on Agon, but the way I ended up looking at it was as a 'safe' journey through the often-scary world of serialism. It starts off fairly bright, goes into an austere "Webern Symphony mode", but ends even brighter than it started. Kind of like a haunted house ride at an amusement park. It might be scary at times, but nothing can hurt you .

Hehe, I'll try to keep that in mind during the journey.

The Firebird.

While I don't really like it, this is definitely a good recommendation based off of what you are looking for.

Yes, I somehow forgot about The Firebird! In theory, it really does have that tension-release scheme. Except, just like you, EigenUser, I would have to admit that I don't really like it either. It's like "Stravinsky lite".

[Linus]

Dumbarton Oaks
Ebony Concerto
Symphony in C
Jeu de Cartes

Thanks, I'll check these out. Any superior recordings?

Basically, I suppose I'm asking for something impossible: a Stravinsky that explores Hell, then magically turns into Mozart and resolves the argument into perfect consonant harmony. That would have been fantastic. I'm not expecting that, though.

[Karl Henning]

That's part of my trouble knowing how to help you, Linus:  I don't think of Igor Fyodorovich as exploring Hell! 

[North Star]

That's part of my trouble knowing how to help you, Linus:  I don't think of Igor Fyodorovich as exploring Hell! 

Agreed, and not really even in Danse infernale.

[Linus]

That's part of my trouble knowing how to help you, Linus:  I don't think of Igor Fyodorovich as exploring Hell! 

Ah, that was perhaps a bad use of metaphor.

I guess the best way I can describe the overall mood of his music would yet again be "tense".

[kishnevi]

I haven't heard this .. but you should check Pollini's classic recording of it on DG.
One of the greatest recordings in all of classical music that I have ever heard.

I have that, in the Pollini 20th Century box.  But the Chandos recording is of the full ballet.  Bavouzet is present only for the other three works.

[EigenUser]

Thanks, I'll check these out. Any superior recordings?

Basically, I suppose I'm asking for something impossible: a Stravinsky that explores Hell, then magically turns into Mozart and resolves the argument into perfect consonant harmony. That would have been fantastic. I'm not expecting that, though.

I think what you're really looking for is Mahler.

Or even (sorry Igor ) Schoenberg (pre-12-tone stuff). Have you heard the Chamber Symphony No. 1?

[Jo498]

yes, it seems you are looking for something with an aesthetic (basically the romantic per aspera ad astra) that is rather foreign to Stravinsky.

[Linus]

Well, I'm not really looking for anyone else; I want Stravinsky, because no one writes music quite the way he does, he can't just be replaced. But, yes, I would have liked it if he was more of a romantic.

[amw]

Basically, I suppose I'm asking for something impossible: a Stravinsky that explores Hell, then magically turns into Mozart and resolves the argument into perfect consonant harmony. That would have been fantastic. I'm not expecting that, though.

Stravinsky really wasn't a happy endings kinda guy, but he does sometimes end on a note that's at least hopeful if not actually optimistic. Try Orpheus for example; the Apothéose is one of the most moving moments in Stravinsky, or music generally. Symphonies of Wind Instruments is another one to try. (Also Symphony in C, one of his darkest and most personal compositions in spite of its neoclassical trappings... but then the end is very ambiguous at best)

For recordings? Naxos series feat. Craft is probably the cheapest and almost certainly the best. Unless it's Rite of Spring or something, start with Craft.

[Rons_talking]

Stravinsky really wasn't a happy endings kinda guy, but he does sometimes end on a note that's at least hopeful if not actually optimistic. Try Orpheus for example; the Apothéose is one of the most moving moments in Stravinsky, or music generally. Symphonies of Wind Instruments is another one to try. (Also Symphony in C, one of his darkest and most personal compositions in spite of its neoclassical trappings... but then the end is very ambiguous at best)

For recordings? Naxos series feat. Craft is probably the cheapest and almost certainly the best. Unless it's Rite of Spring or something, start with Craft.

Since Stravinsky was a modernist who grew to despise the "immediate past," only The Firebird has  a Hollywood ending after a number of dark moments. You're right about Symphonies: the ending is beautiful. It is one of Stravinsky's "modular works." There is no development in the traditional sense; rather he employs several sections that are only partially related to one another and creates a kind of organization based on discontinuity. He is the master of this form. The succesion of short musical gestures generates excitement due to the work interupting itself. In Symphonies, the last section is diatonic in nature and the warm chorale make for great closure. Petrushka, Les Noces, Agon are other examples of this formal structure.
Besides Firebird, the other "Hell and back" work that has a great ending is Symphony of Psalms . Not that it ever gets very dissonant. Stravinsky's works are unified in terms of musical syntax, as are most composers when writing absolute music. But Linus is operating on the premise that dissonance is unattractive music and consonance is beauty. I can't concure with this understanding, though film scoring seems to assign those values to each cue.
Three of my favorite neoclassical works of Stravinsky are Apollo, Orpheus and Persephone; these are all greek-based and have wonderful endings. You're right about Orpheus, it's a moving and exciting work.