Author Topic: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)  (Read 20700 times)

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Offline Old San Antone

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2020, 04:44:30 AM »
I see a few Palestrina discs from them. I'll have to check it out. Would you agree that they sing the music in the context of later styles of music? Ie. that they look forward to the late Renaissance and Baroque rather than looking backward to the Medieval. (That's a nicer way of framing a criticism I read on another board against this recording, with the implication that their approach was wrongheaded.)

I don't know, since I don't think of that kind of thing when I listen.  And it is an odd comment to make since we don't know enough about how they sang in the Medieval period a/o/t the Renaissance, I think it all comes down to someone's ideas about period singing cut with a huge amount of personal taste.

What I like: its an all male group, sparse texture stressing a loose ensemble sound, a liquid vocal blend.  I guess some would object to the vibrato, but I like it since it fits with everything else they are doing.  Marco Longhini's group, Delitiae Musicae, is similar sounding and I like them too.  It is certainly not a tradition British sound.

However, not everything by them is to my liking.  They did incorporated instrumental ensembles in some of their recordings, which I detest.  Really, their Palestrina is what I've heard and must have made assumptions which might not apply to their Dufay, which if they used instruments, I wouldn't like.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 04:52:31 AM by Old San Antone »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2020, 04:59:07 AM »
I don't know, since I don't think of that kind of thing when I listen.  And it is an odd comment to make since we don't know enough about how they sang in the Medieval period a/o/t the Renaissance, I think it all comes down to someone's ideas about period singing cut with a huge amount of personal taste.

What I like: its an all male group, sparse texture stressing a loose ensemble sound, a liquid vocal blend.  I guess some would object to the vibrato, but I like it since it fits with everything else they are doing.  Marco Longhini's group, Delitiae Musicae, is similar sounding and I like them too.  It is certainly not a tradition British sound.

However, not everything by them is to my liking.  They did incorporated instrumental ensembles in some of their recordings, which I detest.  Really, their Palestrina is what I've heard and must have made assumptions which might not apply to their Dufay, which if they used instruments, I wouldn't like.

One thing we do know about how they sang in Josquin's day: they didn't sound like Dietrich Fischer Dieskau.
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Offline Old San Antone

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2020, 05:04:34 AM »
One thing we do know about how they sang in Josquin's day: they didn't sound like Dietrich Fischer Dieskau.

Neither do the singers for PCA.  They employ a "churchy" vocal style to my ears - similar to chant singing.  But we don't actually know much about how professional singers sang in Josquin's day, they might have sounded more like DFD than you may think.

 ;)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2020, 05:13:13 AM »
By the way I found something interesting yesterday, OVPP. Not sure quite what to make of it. I'm thinking more about Stockhausen than I am about Josquin right now.

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Offline Old San Antone

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2020, 05:21:08 AM »
Re: Pro Cantione Antiqua singing style

It may be an Italian thing they are doing.  Vartolo and Longhini employ the same style - all of whom I enjoy.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2020, 05:52:39 AM »
Ah, do Vartolo and Longhini sing Palestrina with vibrato through all the note? (Not a composer I’ve ever explored.)
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Offline Old San Antone

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2020, 06:04:07 AM »
Ah, do Vartolo and Longhini sing Palestrina with vibrato through all the note? (Not a composer I’ve ever explored.)

Yes, it is a very similar sound to Pro Cantione Antiqua.  Odhecaton/Paolo de Col is another group that sings Palestrina in this style. 

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2020, 01:53:56 PM »
I've never truly explored Palestrina either—funny, he's one of the first Renaissance composers anyone ever hears about, but somehow my Renaissance music discoveries took me in a round about way in just about every other direction while somehow avoiding his music. I'm not sure if I'm really ready to take the plunge into his music but I would like to pick up a disc or two at least.

Pro Cantione Antiqua sounds good in this repertoire! Thanks for the rec, San Antone.

Back to Josquin, what does everyone think of the Tallis Scholars recordings? I know they're infamous for "smoothing out" dissonances, whatever that entails. I listened to some of the Pange Lingua mass they did and liked it.

Offline deprofundis

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2020, 04:09:34 PM »
I don't know if this was recommended but here my favorite Josquin album EVER!!!

For song's :

Josquin -Adieu Mes Amours -
Dulces Exuviae
Romain Bockler
Bor Zuljan

On Ricercar

Absolutely fantastic job, now perhaps your thinking ...oh well deprofundis opinion don't count he bias to Franco-Flemish Genius & Josquin, this release is truly fabulous, the singer is so darn good the lute player  is far out amazing, I'm speechless & breathless, to the mastery of execution, it's just perfect.

Now I hate to be the bad guy, I do, but it way way better than Josquin Adieu, mes amours- chanson ensemble Clément Janequin directed by Dominique Visse, sorry mister Visse.

For missa I would choose L'oiseau Lyre as a ressource oof joy and contemplation, it's that sweet. For missa Pangue Lingua Tallis Scholars good but Ensemble Metamorphoses Biscantur! sublime an of course very enchanting , for Missa Hercules dux once again Metamorphoses Biscantur! over de Labyrintho ensemble.

For Motets so far the old album released in 1986 Josquin Desprez Stabat Mater, Motets, La Chapelle Royale: Philippe Herreweghe  splendid.

These were my two cents on Josquin.

Your not morally obligated to like me, but reason should be my speaker over your dislike of people like me.  ;)

I'm not a Saint but if someone ask me what are thee best of (pull a name out of renaissance I can answer this) since  for 20 year I focus on this period.Goodbye stay well, in shape.

p.s I feel so darn exhausted since two year I find the cause, my bed is hard like a rock, I did not had a proper sleep in years always feel pain in the back when I woke up crap...good night all I know my problem wont change until I get a new mattrice

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2020, 09:16:41 AM »


Two motets have so far caught my imagination on this important new release. The first is a short motet which I’d never heard before, Ecce tu pluchra est.   It’s very good. The second is a cycle called Vultum Tuum, nearly half an hour long, which I did know before in James O’Donnell’s large boys’ choir recording - that one is Josquin à la Schubert, a travesty, this one from Giuseppe Maletto is in a completely different ballgame and is a thing of wonder. Both a cappella, by the way, for those who are scared of musical instruments.

There’s another thing which has caught my imagination: the sound. Renaissance music is partly about making very impressive sounds in beautiful buildings and obviously a recording can at best give you a faint shadow of a whiff of what that’s like for real. This recording, on decent hifi, does just that.

I’ve always been very keen on Maletto, and this just adds to my respect.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 09:19:58 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline deprofundis

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #90 on: December 25, 2020, 09:58:22 PM »
Okay here is the deal, Brabant Ensemble is pulling out a new Josquin CD, wow but I hope the works on this CD or rare, because Josquin Desprez I have plenty, it's coming out next January, there a Beauty Farm Release I am not missing on, thee Gombert Masse double CD it's order and the complete Fitzwilliam Virginal Book 15 CD already order, should I invest  in this new Brabant Ensemble I mean I have em all, was expecting an outsider Franco-Flemish subject , but Josquin in no outsider, what you're cue on this I mean love The Brabant Ensemble, Confessing being a wash up fanboy of this ensemble, no mater how hard I try I probably buy it, what your cue on this?