Author Topic: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)  (Read 14052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Guido

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • 396 CCs
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2010, 04:40:21 AM »
The violin concerto "Concierto de estio" is really gorgeous, and the two cello concertos are very nice too - always the slow movements are the best, nostalgic, glowing, sentimental affairs, usually with beautiful scoring. It's not "deep" music, but it is deeply felt and it does what it does very well I think. The two famous guitar concertos are maybe my least favourite of his works.

I highly recommend this disc:
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.555840

« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 04:46:23 AM by Guido »
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Offline (poco) Sforzando

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5673
  • Location: Long Island, NY
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2010, 05:07:20 AM »
The violin concerto "Concierto de estio" is really gorgeous, and the two cello concertos are very nice too - always the slow movements are the best, nostalgic, glowing, sentimental affairs, usually with beautiful scoring. It's not "deep" music, but it is deeply felt and it does what it does very well I think. The two famous guitar concertos are maybe my least favourite of his works.

I highly recommend this disc:
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.555840

I'm sure I can find it used.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2010, 05:09:06 AM »
I'm sure I can find it used.

Yes : )

I'm enjoying the 'new Rodrigo' I've fetched in all right; but it may prove to be all that I require.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58072
  • Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2010, 05:43:57 AM »
How on earth one can write a melody line without writing a rhythm is beyond me, so your astonishment is understandable. As for Rodrigo, I have been baffled by this composer's reputation ever since I heard the Aranjuez. The slow movement is all right, but the outer movements sound like trite and commonplace attempts at local color, and that's been my experience with everything else of his I have heard. I have only two CDs of his, but there are passages I would have been ashamed to write if I thought of myself as a composer. He's not anywhere the equal of Falla at his best (Harpsichord Concerto, Nights in the Gardens), and after hearing the Soleriana the other night I can only agree with Brian, though he's more polite than I would have been.

My favorite Rodrgio works are his Piano, Violin, and Cello Concertos. I haven't found anything else to be particularly memorable. He wasn't an innovator, but these three works should be considered.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Offline (poco) Sforzando

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5673
  • Location: Long Island, NY
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2010, 05:56:45 AM »

My favorite Rodrgio works are his Piano, Violin, and Cello Concertos. I haven't found anything else to be particularly memorable. He wasn't an innovator, but these three works should be considered.

I have the Piano on a tape somewhere that Rob Antecki sent me years ago. All I can remember is a thumping "heroic" theme repeated ad infinitum. But I'll try the string concertos, they're cheap enough. I remember Max Bragado from my student days at Oberlin; glad to see he's made some success.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Offline Guido

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • 396 CCs
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2010, 06:26:40 AM »
I have the Piano on a tape somewhere that Rob Antecki sent me years ago. All I can remember is a thumping "heroic" theme repeated ad infinitum. But I'll try the string concertos, they're cheap enough. I remember Max Bragado from my student days at Oberlin; glad to see he's made some success.

Piano concerto is much as you remember I fear - repetitive with thematic material that is not strong enough to sustain it. Predictably the slow movement is the best, but I dont think its as good as the string concertos' slow movements. The violin concerto is Vivaldian in places, or at least clearly influenced by Vivaldi's concertos. The two cello concertos are more standard fair for Rodrigo - folsky in the outer movements, the first also influenced by Boccherini, but again its the slow movements that are the winners - the first one based on an old Castilian ballad, the second sounding like a folk melody suspended in a celestial web of harmonics and bells.

I'll stop going on now.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2010, 06:28:56 AM »
Au contraire, glad you spoke up, Guido.

Popov

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2010, 06:17:17 PM »
I don't like Rodrigo's music. Actually I do like his 1920s works, but personally I find the evolution of his style most disappointing, settling in a rather dull popular music-rooted style which says nothing for me. For the next two decades after Civil War, with finer composers such as Gerhard and R. Halffter (as I see it he was the true heir of de Falla rather than his brother E. or Rodrigo) in exile and political and esthetic views in tune with the Francoist regime he was the leader of Spanish music, so when in the 1960s the first generation of composers influenced by the avantgarde (C. Halffter, de Pablo, Guinjoan, Barce, Marco, Bernaola, de Olavide...) took over and he realized his music was widely discredited among his younger colleagues it was probably a shock. Subsequently he tried to modernize his style while remaining audience-friendly in works such A la busca del más allá (a tone poem comissioned by NASA!), but I'd say the result was pretty bland.

It's not like I think he was a bad composer or something, he was obviously a honest craftsman who deserves consideration and I think building a career as a composer being blind is definitely admirable. But IMHO there are much lesser known Valencian composers with a much stronger and interesting voice, such as Francisco Llácer Pla (1918-2002). I do understand Rodrigo's popularity here in Spain but I don't really get its prestige abroad.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kSIL__A_Lco" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/kSIL__A_Lco</a>

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58072
  • Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2010, 06:27:33 PM »
I don't like Rodrigo's music. Actually I do like his 1920s works, but personally I find the evolution of his style most disappointing, settling in a rather dull popular music-rooted style which says nothing for me.

It's not like I think he was a bad composer or something, he was obviously a honest craftsman who deserves consideration and I think building a career as a composer being blind is definitely admirable.

What's this obssession some people have with trying to degrade a composer because he wasn't apart of the avant-garde? So what? Who cares if Rodrigo wasn't apart of this group? Does this make his music any less appealing? Does this make his music greatly inferior, because he didn't experiment?
 
As I have stated (many times now), Rodrigo wasn't an innovator and had really no interest in doing so hence why his style changed very little. That said, he, like all good composers, wrote some excellent music.
 
I only like a few of his works (i. e. his cello, violin, and piano concerti). Other than that, his style doesn't do much for me.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Popov

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2010, 06:54:09 PM »
Maybe I didn't express myself well (it's difficult for me to write in English) but it has nothing to do with that, I like the music of definitely conservative composers as J. Turina, E. Halffter, Remacha or Guridi. But I fail to find anything appealing in his trademark works, which sound depressingly withered to me, as opposed to his earlier exciting, fresh works. As usual I was talking about my personal taste there, and of course it's a letdown when such a promising drive just vanishes in later works. This is the Rodrigo I like (sorry for the terrible performance of mine):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGPollRjM-Y" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NGPollRjM-Y</a>
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 06:57:01 PM by Popov »

Offline (poco) Sforzando

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5673
  • Location: Long Island, NY
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2010, 02:52:45 AM »

What's this obssession some people have with trying to degrade a composer because he wasn't apart of the avant-garde? So what? Who cares if Rodrigo wasn't apart of this group? Does this make his music any less appealing? Does this make his music greatly inferior, because he didn't experiment?
 
As I have stated (many times now), Rodrigo wasn't an innovator and had really no interest in doing so hence why his style changed very little. That said, he, like all good composers, wrote some excellent music.
 
I only like a few of his works (i. e. his cello, violin, and piano concerti). Other than that, his style doesn't do much for me.

Some are innovators, some are not. But at least from a strong composer I wish to hear a personal idiom, and some signs that the music is imaginative and compelling. Popov's illuminating comments (written in very good English, by the way) are more or less in line with my own thinking: a "rather dull popular music-rooted style." I think of most of the Rodrigo I've heard as local color pieces suitable for accompaniments for a travelogue film or piped-in music at the local Spanish restaurant. Honestly, that opening motif from the Aranjuez - endless repetitions of a single 6/8-3/4 pattern that was cliched and obvious the first time, let alone the 47th? You yourself defend only three works, and of them I have only the piano concerto at present and the other two on order as I'm willing to give them a chance. (I have the piano concerto on a tape but no cassette recorder at present, and all I can remember from years ago is a trite "heroic" theme repeated ad infinitum - an impression Guido confirmed). I'm not even particularly impressed with the piano piece Popov offers.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2010, 05:39:31 AM »
The violin concerto "Concierto de estio" is really gorgeous, and the two cello concertos are very nice too - always the slow movements are the best, nostalgic, glowing, sentimental affairs, usually with beautiful scoring. It's not "deep" music, but it is deeply felt and it does what it does very well I think. The two famous guitar concertos are maybe my least favourite of his works.

I highly recommend this disc:
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.555840

The Concierto in modo galante is value added to the Rodrigo catalogue overall (the outer movements are rather over-redolent of the famous Aranjuez). As I've already got the Bátiz two-fer, the bulk of this Naxos disc would be duplicates . . . and I don't know how much I'd invest in the Naxos disc just for the Concierto como un divertimento and a four-minute Cancioneta.
 
I think my Rodrigo fix is now probably, well, fixed.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58072
  • Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2010, 06:05:01 PM »
You yourself defend only three works.

That is correct I only defend these three works. The rest of Rodrigo's output you can keep. As another poster mentioned, it is the slow movements that really make these particular works stand out to me. I agree that the outer movements in most of his music, especially Aranjuez are not particularly interesting and are in a word: cliche.
 
Rodrigo is hardly a composer I listen to that much, but I will continue to defend these three concerti that I enjoy, but other than these works I listed, he does little for me.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 07:19:30 PM by Mirror Image »
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Offline RJR

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 353
  • Location: Canada
  • Currently Listening to:
    Reading Robert Erickson's The structure of music
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2011, 07:38:34 AM »
To MirrorImage,
I am not familiar with many of Rodrigo's works, but I love very much his Para Gentilhombre.

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58072
  • Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2011, 07:52:01 AM »
To MirrorImage,
I am not familiar with many of Rodrigo's works, but I love very much his Para Gentilhombre.

As I stated in my earlier comments, Rodrigos concerti for violin, cello, and piano are the only compositions of his that I thoroughly enjoy. He composed some beautiful music, but you can't have beauty, in my opinion, without tension from dissonance. Rodrigo avoided dissonance most of his career and, for me, that made his music just sound like a wash, instead of something to listen to that has a compelling story to follow.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

greg

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2011, 04:32:09 AM »
As I stated in my earlier comments, Rodrigos concerti for violin, cello, and piano are the only compositions of his that I thoroughly enjoy. He composed some beautiful music, but you can't have beauty, in my opinion, without tension from dissonance. Rodrigo avoided dissonance most of his career and, for me, that made his music just sound like a wash, instead of something to listen to that has a compelling story to follow.
Have you heard his solo piano music? Very much Ravel-like and dissonant (although it's been years since I listened).

Kontrapunctus

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2011, 11:03:19 AM »
I like his recently discovered Toccata for solo guitar. It was ignored due to its overwhelming technical difficulty, so he arranged it as the first movement of his Violin Concerto. Here is a brave young woman having a go at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYdDvjOt2
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 09:03:54 PM by Kontrapunctus »

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58072
  • Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    19th Century through the 21st Century
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2011, 08:30:12 PM »
I like his recently discovered Toccata for solo guitar. It was ignored due to its overwhelming technical difficulty, so he arranged it as the first movement of his Violin Concerto. Here is a brave young woman having a go at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYdDvjOt2

I'm new here...how do I embed a video? I don't see a YT icon that many sites use.)

Welcome aboard. You will have to insert a hyperlink, which can be found to the left of the Amazon button. The icon is a little globe with a piece of paper in front of it. Hope this helps.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Kontrapunctus

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2011, 11:19:13 PM »
Welcome aboard. You will have to insert a hyperlink, which can be found to the left of the Amazon button. The icon is a little globe with a piece of paper in front of it. Hope this helps.
Thanks. I did that, but it still didn't work.

Kontrapunctus

  • Guest
Re: Joaquin Rodrigo (1901 - 1999)
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2011, 02:06:15 PM »

OK, I think I have it now! Here is the premiere...a little rough, but he didn't have a lot of time to prepare it:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ja_GXzg8EhE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ja_GXzg8EhE</a>

and another version:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DyYdDvjOt2Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DyYdDvjOt2Q</a>